Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My wife and I just went to Tuttle Creek Lake in Kansas. We were working a road cut when we were stopped by a game and parks officers. I hadn't realized that we needed a hunting permit to look for herps, we don't have anything like that where we are from, so I will admit that I erred on that one. However even had I know about the law, I wouldn't have thought that we were breaking it, because we weren't planning on taking anything. We're pretty big conservationists and would never even think about keeping WC (just our preference), we only wanted to get some pictures of the collared lizards in that area. We even told him as much, but obviously he didn't believe us. After searching our car, and not finding nothing, he actually commented on the fact that we didn't have any containers to collect anything. He seemed surprised and maybe a bit dissapointed about this, but I did tell him before he searched that that wasn't our plan. At this point he started to look angry and ranted on about how it was illegal to even touch a reptile with a permit. He explained that according to Kansas law , the word "take" meant: to harass, possess. chase/pursue, or to actually collect (but he did say that he THOUGHT that it said this). Therefore it was illegal to take pictures of herps and everything else that is in the hunting guide. The only animals that are allowed to be taken without permit are gophers, moles, and invertabrates. I wish I would have thought of this at the time but I was too busy trying to comfort my wife because the prick made her cry during his lecture, according to his logic bird watching woudl be illeagal too. But we all know this isn't the case.
Fortunatly he just gave us a written warning for each of us and told us that if we planned on looking for reptiles in Kansas, then we had to get permits. He did however take his sweet time writting out those warnings, and he didn't even tell us that that was what they were until the end (after he had already written and signed them).
After he left, we went back to the office and the elderly woman there was shocked at what had happened. She said that she had never heard of that before, and if it was the officer that she thought it was, then "he just felt that he needed to show us how macho he was." I did find that a permit is needed to collect reptiles, but it didn't say anything about photographing them and that the permit is $71 a piece! I will be writting the Kansas game and parks about this, but I wanted to see what other people thought I should do. Was he justified? Was I in the wrong on this one? I do understand that he had probable cause to search our car, I'm not going to fault him on that, but after I told him that I wasn't collecting and after that was proven by him not finding any collection containers, I would of thought that enough was enough and that he didn't have to be so rude and belittling. Like I said the prick made my wife cry. Just let me know what you think.
Thanks,
Trevor

(sorry about the picture, I can't figure out how to delete it without deleting my whole post)

The fact that he wrote the warnings documents what he did to some degree, so I would file an official complaint and let them know that you might consider civil action if you are not happy with the discipline he receives for this.

He needs to be punished, and his superiors need to be held accountable for that punishment.

LOL...(not at your situation, but at your desription of the conservation officer). They all seem to have something to prove. It actually does specify that the "pursuit" of reptiles, as in lifting rocks or other surface cover, is illegal without a permit. He had the upperhand there. BUT...He had no right to treat you the way he did and this is where you can get him. I suggest that you contact the home office in Pratt. A man by the name of Ken Brunsen is in charge of the regulation of non-game, talk to him. I would write up a technical complaint and account of exactly what happend.

Thanks very much for your info. I'd rather not email the guy, I still think that an actual letter in the case of something like this, can be more efectiive. Should I just address it to the Kansas Game and WIldlife in care of Non-game species dept?
As for the legality of Kansas herping. So what you're saying is that I'm pretty much screwed out of herping Kansas? I mean $71 for a permit that I would use more than three times a year, is really expencive, exspecially since I don't want to take anything, only photographs. How can they justify this for herps, but yet allow people to bird watch all they want? Plus there's the avid nature photographers.
Oh well, I'm just rather peeved off about the whole thing, and I already ranted once. So I'll end it here.
Once again thank you very much for your support and info.
Trevor

Just make sure that you send the letter to Ken Brunsen. I would suggest that you mention in your letter the possibility of getting a scientific collecting permit. Specify that you just want to photograph and not collect, and include that on the permit. This will only cost you $11, but is difficult to get. Good luck...