Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hallo,

in the clutch of my boa constrictor are three young boas which looks like the father. Can anybody say if its pastel ?

Here's a pic of the male

And here ar pics from the young boas.

Greetings from Germany

Karsten
Link

Pastels usually are lighter with faded/reduced side diamonds.
There are a lot of really nice normals out there.
Beautiful boas - congrats on the babies.
-----
StarlightSpecialties.com

_____

Signature file edited; [phw 9/26/04]

catagory.

Ok, many thanks. I only think it's pastel, because three of the young looks like the father and the other are "spotted".

or "minimal" or "light" flecking/peppering/speckles/freckles/spotting as apposed to moderate or heavy. I'm sure I left out some descriptive words to denote speckles.
If they are pink, peach, or orange, it is good to describe them that way.

How about clean pink babies??

Unfortunately, too many people are calling pinkish/orangeish/light boas "pastels." So, a newcomer will be confused as to what a pastel really is.

Now, I have a female I would consider "pastel," as she has the features of a pastel. She may have even come from a known pastel line. You can see the evident good breeding behind her, BUT her owner gave her up to a pet shop because of an emergency and I bought her. So, her genetics are unknown and if I were to sell her, I would not be able to lable her "pastel."

Perhaps I can call her Strawberry & Peaches Circleback Laddertail?? Or is it a block tail? Guess I need to see the difference between a ladder and a block to know for sure.
-----
StarlightSpecialties.com

_____

Signature file edited; [phw 9/26/04]

Pastel is a phenotype, not neccesarily a bloodline.

Since your boa CLEARLY falls into the pastel phenotype catagory it can be labeled and sold as such (if you so choose). Some people reject the term and like to call them nice normals. Either way, its defenitly a pastel.

Now, what you couldnt do is call it a "Pastel Dreams" or "EBV Red Group" which are specific pastel bloodlines.

Think of it in terms of an albino (for example). If you find an albino in the wild would you not call it an albino because you dont know its background? Of course not, it clearly is of the amelanistic phenotype therfore it is an albino.

and call her a nice normal. Didn't want to take the chance of stepping on any toes by calling her a pastel, since I know nothing about her and certainly haven't bred her yet.

Pastel to me is more confusing than the jungle issue, or perhaps just as confusing. Though, through recent evaluation of the jungle threads below, I know what I like to see in a jungle (bright color, clean, bold saddle outlines all the way up - as opposed to weak outlines or no outlines on the saddles nearest the head, & aberrant pattern - this would be my ideal jungle).

I have seen arguments over the pastel term in the past, and just wanted to play it safe when talking about my girl. To me she is my ideal pastel.

My idea of a Pastel is to have pastel coloration, clean body, and faded/reduced side diamonds, little to no black in body saddles.

If my ideal is correct, then why are sooo many pastels that are being advertised only have color and not the other traits?? Perhaps, someone will tell me, "that like jungles, pastels don't always carry all of the traits either, but you can plainly see they are pastel.". I would not be able to plainly see them as pastels, since I have a pre-set standard, but I would still see them as very nicely colored animals. Since they have plain side diamonds, in my mind they are not pastels (even if that may be wrong to others).

If, my ideal is not correct in what a pastel should be, somebody please correct me. If full side diamonds are ok to be on a pastel, and or dark saddles, then I give up. I will never know or understand what a pastel is.

Perhaps my idea of pastel is more like a hypo (the non-co-dom types). To me they are similar, though in truth I think of co-dom when I think of hypo and not just the "lack/reduction of black" that hypo implies. With this in mind, I would say a Hogg is a pastel as well as a natural hypo type. Sorry...I keep digressing.

If they come from true pastel parents and still have the side diamonds, are they pastels because the parents were and they have nice color, or are they very nice normals?? In my heart they would be very nice normals, despite having pastels for parents, or one pastel for a parent. But, others may not see it that way. That is fine with me. A nice colorful normal is worth just as much to me as a pastel would be, so to me the name is an issue and not the price.

Just as a proven co-dom aberrant would mean just the same to me as a proven co-dom jungle, in fact probably more because I like aberrancies and some co-dom jungles are not very aberrant. Oh dear, I said the "J" word....I only meant to make a similar comparison.

Similar problems with terminology. Jungle/Aberrant & Pastel/Pink
Those that don't know interchange them, which can lead to confusion for newcomers. Nonetheless, they are all are very nice animals.

Please let me know how far off the mark I am.
-----
StarlightSpecialties.com

_____

Signature file edited; [phw 9/26/04]

does that mean that since she is of unknown origin that I make up my own pastel name for her "new" line?
-----
StarlightSpecialties.com

_____

Signature file edited; [phw 9/26/04]

Here is the basic run-down of "pastelism".

(via selective breeding)

- Reduce black, once a certain level of reduced black has been acheived they can be deemed within the pastel phenotype and are pastels

Reducing black then allows for a more clear view of the color that the boas have. Take a very dark, muddy boa for example. How much color does it have? Theres no way of knowing, it could have TONS! It could have none! Reducing black allows for a clearer view of how much color is present. This, in turn, allows for more effecient selective breeding towards color. Which is why developed pastel bloodlines (keyword there, bloodlines) inevitably have excellent color tied to them because after all, who is going to selective breed for less color.

Could there be a pastel with not a spec of visible coloration? Yep. As long as the reduction in black is to a certain level it sure can.

Again though, pastel bloodlines will typically have color tied to them because of the more effecient selective color breeding as a result of the pastelism. But the color is not what makes them pastel, its the reduction in black.

Your boa clearly falls into the reduction in black pastel phenotype catagory. The saddles/side diamonds are so washed out that it screams "pastel".

Could you name it your own pastel line? I personally would want to get a few breedings, maybe even a few generations, under my belt before I would want to name it as my own. Do some selective breeding work attributed to yourself and prove its validity through breeding trials first.

Here is J.Ronne's pastel explanation, very long but lots of great explainations and information in there. I highly reccomend everyone out there interested not only in pastels, but boa coloration, to read it:

http://www.theboaforum.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=boapics1;action=display;num=1050880714

asked for my name again and I lost it all. Yankers, I hate it when that bloody well happens.

Here is what I think I wrote:

I was actually only joking about the nameing business. I know so many people are so eager to put forth new names, I couldn't stop myself from joking about it.

Thank you for the info, I actually read the info at the link. I feel my Ideal pastel is right on with that. I feel better knowing it.

Since the reduction of black makes a pastel by definition, it also makes a hypo by definition (not the co-dom hypo trait).
So, for example, a Hogg is a Pastel and a Hypo by definition.

To broaden the subject, what then makes a Hypo Pastel? Since, both by definition are the reduction of black. Most co-dom hypos lack black.

Is a Hypo Pastel, like the Dream line, only considered Pastel if it is a co-dom trait? Though, I was under the impression that Pastel wasn't co-dom, but rather color bred. It should not, by definition, be a color difference. So, what them makes a hypo pastel?
-----
StarlightSpecialties.com

_____

Signature file edited; [phw 9/26/04]

in comparison to the wild type phenotype. So no, hogs wouldnt necessarily fall in that catagory. Maybe a hog island with extra washout but I think the pastel catagory is mainly tied just to colombian boas.

Regarding hypos being pastels, pastel refers to a selectively bred wild type variation, not a single gene mutation. So hypos wouldnt fall in that catagory.

What makes a pastel hypo? Introducing a normal line that falls into the pastel phenotype catagory with the hypomelanistic mutation. It generally makes for lighter/better hypos. That is speaking in the pastel phenotype sense. Pastel bloodlines, with increased color tied to them, can take hypo coloration to the next level.

are not hypoish-pastel looking animals if said animals in the wild are normally colored in such a manner (such as Hoggs, which are a natural hypo type). But, if the normal varient is dark and spotty in the wild, yet you find one that is different from that, hypoish-pastel looking in comparison, than that one could be a pastel. Such as, you are in Columbia and you see my female slithering along, she is abnormal to the norm, so could then be considered pastel? Sorry if what I said is confusing...I know what I am trying to say.

Am I getting it or am I beating my head against a wall concerning that point?

I think I understand what you are saying, even though the Hogg concept continues to throw me. Reduced or no black, washed out diamonds, light color - though some are intensly colored...by definition it sounds like a pastel, though I understand it is not considered such. Natural vs. abnormal.
-----
StarlightSpecialties.com

_____

Signature file edited; [phw 9/26/04]

Pastel is reduced black.

Reduced black in comparison to what? The wild type. Cant compare different localities in that regard. Especially hogs that debatably shouldnt be even BCI. Reduced black should be in comparison to the wild type of the same locality.

But yeah, if yours were slithering along out in the wild, even though its wild it would still be reduced black in comparison to most wild colombians, therfore still a pastel (wild or not). In fact I know of a wild caught pastel colombian line (killer line).

-----
StarlightSpecialties.com

_____

Signature file edited; [phw 9/26/04]