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I was shocked today to find eight baby dumerils 134 days after ovulation and with no warning or pre birth shed! They are all very big and much bigger than last years which has had a negative effect on the female who is looking very thin and has saggy skin towards the end of her body. She looks healthy aprt from that and i just hope that she will get back on food soon. I am surprised that there was no pre birth shed and all i had was a mid gestation shed back in late April. On the back of this I am interested to know if it is better to base the birth on P.O.S rather tha pre birth shed as it never happened in my case this year.
Jason any input??

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Not really I wish I could help ya out but Ive had the same situations as you, Ive had them run a time line that could be followed then had them just throw them out unexpected, Best I can say is just watch the activity, you can see it when they get close and get really uncofortable, you can wlk in the room every 45 minutes and they are in a differant position, they pace lay belly up, your getting close when they get real active, thats the best I could ever tell its really the only thing I have found to be really consitant is the activity, Ive got one now that is a couple weeks passed her second so called "prebirth" shed, she looks great I am expecting some nice young from her anyway congrats best of luck, Jason

>>I was shocked today to find eight baby dumerils 134 days after ovulation and with no warning or pre birth shed! They are all very big and much bigger than last years which has had a negative effect on the female who is looking very thin and has saggy skin towards the end of her body. She looks healthy aprt from that and i just hope that she will get back on food soon. I am surprised that there was no pre birth shed and all i had was a mid gestation shed back in late April. On the back of this I am interested to know if it is better to base the birth on P.O.S rather tha pre birth shed as it never happened in my case this year.
>>Jason any input??
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

Hey There-
Did she just have the babies or did she have them back on June 22? The only reason I ask is that in your photo gallery she had her ovulation on Feb 8.. 134 days from then would be June 22. If she just had them this week we're talking 150ish days from Feb 8.
Thanks-
Matt Schubarth

Hi Matt
its 133 days from her P.O.S on the 27th Feb. From Ovulation on the 8th it would be 152 days i think. I found another one which makes Nine in the clutch total! The babies are really big maybe 20 inches or more each. I'm not surprised the females weight has dropped from 3.6kg down to 2.650kg considering the amount of resources needed for all 9 babies. I definately wont be breeding her this coming season. Has anyone tried to breed dumerils in consecutive years at all? I would have thought it couldnt be done successfully unless the female was 6ft and 5kg in weight. Is Nine babies a small/average/large haul for a first breeding of a 5ft/5yr old female? I would like to compare notes with fellow breeders findings on first time breedings - I dont know of many breeders here in the UK.

Jon

Ill bred somew of the smaller females 2yrs in a row but never more. It all depends on how they look come breeding season. Back when I started a few frineds had run females year aftaer yr and 3rd yr they all started slugging getting dark and looking really stressed from being run to hard so Ive never pushed them that hard,
I was in a hurry yesterday but I do have another female due Monday shes kind of been running a time line, she shed last friday and with the way she looks and is behaving I think shel do one of Pauls 10day deals, shes was seperated from the male the 1st of Jan so shell be running about a 7.5-8month gestation, once you get familiar with the behavior youll see, you can kind of judge by behavior like I said I have that other female who looks great(ihave had her since 97, never slugged or thrown stills) but her sheds are all over the place

As far as 9 to a little thats perfect, nice big fat babies you cant argue with that, the only thing I hate about the big ones is sometimes they can take longer to get eating well, the litter numbers are slowly going up in captivity because the animals are getting larger being feed the way they are but average is probally 12-15, a buddy of mine and I had this conversation the other day he is into true Hogg Island boas, there similar to dumerils in respect to size and small litter numbers but he has some huge true Hoggs that throw 30 to a litter the larger numbers are becoming more common, best of luck, Jason
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

I asked about the length since it seemed to jive with my results. I know that their is no set in stone number for any specie but I'm begining to think that a good average gestation for Dumerils from ovulation to birth is around 150 days. Even though all of my girls have a pre-birth shed, from now on I will also weight in that number into an expected date of birth.

When my original to females were 6 feet they had their first litter, both around 12 babies each. I think that's a great litter for a 5 footer. They are good size, which I take as a good sign of health. I had a harder time getting my first batch from June eating , which were 15-18 inches, a month for all of them. The litter I just had(all in the 20's), I waited two weeks to offer food(last night), and they ALL ate.

Good luck and congrats again-
Matt Schubarth
Pet Nebula

Hi Matt
Yeah the 150 day is definately a marker for me now. I dont imagine she will get bigger than 5.5ft at 5yrs old so i just think she is genetically small. Going back to the pastel argument, I have a CB 04 female that is very very light with very little black on her - very similar to the young one you posted in the photo gallery. I will post pics of her and with a normal looking specimen as she does look identical to the pastel in that pic.
Jon

As far as the sheds, that's going to happen. Back when I first mentioned my AVERAGES on sheds, I also mentioned that sometimes they give birth and go into a shed cycle, rather than shed just prior to birth. Sometimes your going to have an experience like you just had. I looked at my records and came up with the average based on what my females had done over the past several years. Just as you had this alternate experience, I've had BCI go with NO POS....which is the thing to look for in BCI, and ovulation was very noticeable and the timing was right IF there had been a POS, even though there was none. If you think back a couple years, can you remember anyone discussing shed dates in relation to dumerils gestations? I certainly can't, so I think it's great to see all the Dumerils breeders atleast sharing notes. Even though sometimes the info is shared in an attempt to disprove one another, a careful reader can ascertain much information from what has been written here in the recent past. Regardless of shed though, your results were far from a 9 month gestation which was the general information you would read on dumerils not long ago. Well, enough fluff-LOL, Congratulations on your new litter!!! Take care!

Paul

Some good points reaised there Paul regarding gestation. It's definately good for dumerils in general that us as keepers/breeders can relate and compare notes on breeding regardless of the fact we have produced 1 or 30 litters. The arguments about hypo or pastel dums will no doubt continue but IMO there should be no right or wrong opinion on what colour morph a dumeril may or may not be. Having produced two litters i just look forward to seeing any new litter of dums as they are by far my favourite species to keep and full of character too. It is the fundamentals of breeding dumerils that count for me most although selective breeding of the nicest specimens in future can only produce more attractive animals making dumerils increasingly popular as a result.
Ramble over!!!!
Jon

Firstly, I greatly admire and respect Gus as a breeder. This recent post has a great underlying truth to it that I find inspiring. The link below will take you right to it.
Later-
Matt Schubarth
Pet Nebula

Link