Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is it just me or is everything going late this season it's 104 outside and lots of our snakes are still going at it...?
At this rate we will still be hatching eggs in December.
These two have been going at it for two weeks now.

Wes @ MKR

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Is that a 28 quart container?
Great year you are having. Money well spent to the max. You want to adopt a 58 yo kid? Now getting some back.
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

I also noticed that they were in what looks to be a 28qt rubbermaid, model 2221.

I would think it to be too small for most breedable female balls, have you guys had good luck with that size container?
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-Ross Payan - www.LeosAnonymous.com

Leos Anonymous

Red Striped Tangerines, Carrot Tails and Screaming Amel Fat-Tails

2221's are the ticket for females up to 5 pounds we group breed in large 60x30 inch runs but I do pairs in 2221's I have bred Ball Pythons in these containers since 1993 I use home made racks originally designed to hold Kingsnakes.
You must keep them clean but other than that they work fine,
remember ( in the wild )Ball Pythons spend most of their time hiding from predators they avoid open spaces when at all possible and seek out the tightest most inaccessible spot possible to feel safe.Take a look on our website to see my rattle trap cage system. We also use freedom breeders
but you can breed in any container that allows enough room
for copulation.

Wes
MORPH KING REPTILES

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Are you heating the 28 quarts with tape under the back or behind them? What sort of temperature gradient do you have? Do you leave the females in there through lay?

I had some deformed (kinked) albino babies this year and right now my best theory as to why is that I had the gravid mom in a 28 quart that was too hot (88 or so mid cage) without enough gradient. I thought I was being smart keeping her in a rack set up for maternal incubation where she couldn't lay them in a cool spot but now I'm wondering if gravid females need access to a bigger heat gradient than I gave her in the small box. Next year I’ll go back to keeping all of my gravid females in 3ft or longer cages with good gradients just in case.

If anyone has any ideas on what causes kinked babies I would really like some feedback as of course I'm really wanting to avoid getting more kinked babies next year. Thanks!!

Not only do 2221's work great for gravid females but I have allowed over 60 females to maternally incubate in the tubs
with right at 300 eggs hatched the only deformity I have had was a classic jungle that was a bit of a runt. My heat tape is under a panel and controlled with a penn bulb thermostat so durable you could almost use it for target practice LOL . The tape never touches the 2221
the room is 85 the tape is 91 to 93 However if your girl
lays her eggs on the tape and there isn't a thermostat that could cause deformities temps above 95 are teratogenic in the early stages of egg development it is best to stick with 90
for incubation be sure to use a high low digital thermometer
to make sure you incubator isn't fluctuating without your knowledge ..

Hope this helps

Wes

MKR
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It helps, thanks! Unfortunately I still don't know for sure why I got the kinked clutch this year and an unrelated one last year. I had one survivor out of the two clutches so something hit them hard and I really don't think its genetics.

I was thinking they needed at least some access to temps below 85 but if that is your room temperature and you aren't having problems that blows that theory. Unless they need access to temps between 85 - 87 but it would seem likely that some where along the line you would have had a cool end that was a few degrees hotter than the room temp but still no problems.

Someone had suggested that temps as low as 90 deg could cause this sort of problem. I did watch the high/low on the thermometer but cleared it regularly however I sure don't remember any 90 or more after they where in the incubator. Maybe mom could have spent time before laying at the hot end at 90 if not perhaps 95 even though she had an 87 end to go to. The clutch last year was laid over the heat tape before being removed for artificial incubation so I would see it having gotten 95. The clutch this year had heat at the back so I don’t think it could have gotten quite as hot.

So, I'm still thinking high temps but I'm not sure how high (90 or closer to 95?) and when (pre-lay?) and how best to avoid it in the future. Maybe it's my low background temp (65 - 72) which requires me to keep the hot end 90 or a little more that causes the problems? In the wild the females must have access to higher temps and avoid them when needed but maybe in captivity their need for security results in some females over heating late in pregnancy rather than taking advantage of the optimum heating available somewhere in their cage gradient.

Do you maternally incubate all of your clutches or just some?

Now like most everyone else we are using an incubator room
and no longer let the girls do their own thing at least until we run out of room in the incubator. I think your low ambient temp is the problem its either too cold or too hot. During the winter cycle that would be fine but after the spring warm up
the room should be at least 80. Just keep tweeking the temps you will get it right If your using a temp gun make sure it is accurate. The kinking is very puzzling to me because I have hatched Ball python eggs in 50 days at 93 degrees and the female offspring are breeding in our facility right now!
I am not saying for anyone to try this but I did it with normals
just to see what would happen. I have a friend at the OKC Zoo
who has hatched Ball Pythons on top of a rack in his snake room at about 85 no incubator! We all have a lot to learn....
I am only an egg...

Wes

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A real pro letting mom do it......
Made my day
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

No offense or anything (really ), but the pic in your sig (the MKR logo) is really large! It kinda feels like I have to scroll through a full-page ad every post
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-audri
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