Reptile & Amphibian Forums

releasing CB snakes from your collection into the wild?
or releasing WC snakes that have been in your collection back into the wild?

I have a major problem with it. Out of respect I'm not going to name any names, but I wll plead with anyone doing such to please stop.

In truth I have a moral obligation to at least share the localities that this is taking place.

off the top of my head, some reasons why you should not do it.

1) you could introduce pathogens from your collection into the wild

2) you undermine the integrity of the locality genetics

3) nobody wants to find your CB cr@p that you couldn't raise or your reject WC's that wouldn't feed

If you've got any reason, list it here. And while you are at it, give me your feedback on this pratice!

EVERYONE SPEAK UP, let them know how you feel about it.

Disgusted
Joe

I'll be the first to agree with Joe. There is no justification for releasing captive bred snakes into the wild population. It does nothing for positive for it. The practice may be well intended, but it is not in the best interests of the local wild population and more likely can result in far more harm than good. A case in point is the present jeopardy of wild Mojave desert tortoises that contracted disease from captive releases which in turn decimated many local populations of the species. I think that anyone who truly cares about Lampropeltis alterna in the wild would heed this lesson. There is no reason to put wild animals at risk from disease that could cause potential widespread die-offs. I would ask that anyone conducting this practice to stop it now. If there are excess captive snakes that cannot be placed, they should be euthanized humanely. It's better for the individual and most importantly, the wild population.

I agree, why take the chance on destroying locality genetics by introducing "mongrel" or blended genes. Add to that the sad state of some folks collections, and the chance of disease goes thru the roof. A poor practice all around.

I know of someone right now that i have talked out of doing just that but does he euthanize them. No one really wants what he has and a major crises came down on him and his family and forces him to have to eradicate his whole collection. I will tell you that they are mostly wild caught and semi-long captive animals. I have read the exchange of diseases and the mortality rate of releasing animals back in to the wild and even know that some states absolutely forbids this. There has been some hint that a few breeders have released species back into wild due to the non-market or value that they have perceived that they would get and not wanting to " give the critters away ". I have also hinted that why these people are still breeding if that is the case. You know that fallacy about letting domestic pets breed and having at least one litter of offsprings has been proved to be bunk. This is another example on things i just don't understand of why some reptile enthusiast breeds and have offsprings when they have changed their lifestyle to not be in the whelms of bringing to market or value or a way to do what they had done before.
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

I remember when my "confiscated" animals were released into BBNB by LE... So you can now get some Lajitas and Langtry bloodlins out there.

Lance

I don't like it for the second reason you mentioned. However, I do feel that the pathogen issue is overrated. However, it's best to be safe rather than sorry.

You mentioned listing the localities in which this is taking place, did I miss something?

Brad

The problem is that when I say the location, everyone will know WHO I'm talking about.

And as much as I want to call this guy out by name (he sure as heck ought to know better), I never personally saw him do it. So you see the potential problem there.

It's better just to issue a reminder for (and plead) for everyone NOT to do it. It's a bad idea for many reasons.

of someone maybe doing so out toward the windmill or farther out by Redford. There is a pic of a River Road alterna found several years ago that just doesn't look like a animal from that locality or shouldn't of been there. Unfortunately i don't have that picture but Mike W of Florida does as my camera shot craps on that trip. I have also heard of some strange tri-colors or milks that may of had some other tri-color species influence found out there whether they were let go or escapees, There was some rumors to that effect as well some time ago.
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

but they been catching freaky Val Verde like blairs out there since the 70's. I don't think those genes are polluted or if they were it had to be done in the 60's.

Check out Ricky Green's awesome R.R. Blair's (photo by Hodgson) from the 70's in the Presidio county Gallery.
Barker also caught a wide banded xmas way back when too, as I'm sure a bunch of folks did.

Best
Joe

Joe, I would give out the locality if I were you. Maybe the person needs a wake-up call to get them to stop doing it. Are the snakes being released alterna? Any other species? Maybe if the person knows we're on to him it may stop. If you don't want to post it maybe do it via e-mail.
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Steve W.

The whole idea is simply frought with peril . . . with the example of the Desert Tortoise staring us in the face, one wonders why anyone would take that risk with wild populations anymore.

Reintroductions should be left to professionals - with each individual carefully monitored for health and genetic integrity. I know of no private individuals that have the facilities to run such an operation - you would have to raise only the species to be reintroduced, with attempts at allowing breeding to take place naturally, and to carefully monitor for pathogens.

I would rather feed all my non-feeding baby alterna to my chain kings than to release them into the wild!

Troy

Troy,

You have a good point and I agree 100 percent. Better to feed or freeze a snake rather than risk the rest of the population.

Steven

I have heard or know nothing as fact, but have infered this from other post in the thread...

To be fair Joe, the cat is halfway out of the bag here.

Lance

Can't do anything about what has already been done, but as I said, we can plead with folks not to do it anymore. So please don't do it anymore.

I reminded my self of something I saw on the north hill of Luna Vista. I saw a freaking domesticated mouse! Now come on people! This is not a good idea either! I have a pretty good idea who did that, so if anyone here talks to this other guy and can put
2 and 2 together, ask him to pretty please don't seed the cuts with domesticated mice.

Hey Joe,
You're definitely correct. Even the "pros" have a difficult time with permitting, health requirements. etc. It took Steve Reichling years to get the OK to release cb P. ruthveni and that just started a couple of year back. I think Troy's answer to feeding out your culls is the best way to go or just euthanize the animals straight away.
Best...
Jim

does anybody remember that white rabbit that used to live in langtry...it would jump straight up in the air when q-beamed.....how about the peacocks????.....in 1970 some a$$hole petshop owner let 2 dozen bullsnakes go in the pine barrens....in a pine snake area.......i know of no recored influence...it might be like our neanderthal genes???

special thanks to a friend for digging this up for me.

In CA:

Sections 1002, 5061, 6851 and 6896, Fish and Game Code. Reference: Sections 1002, 5050, 5060, 5061, 6850, 6852, 6854-6855, 6895 and 6896, Fish and Game Code.
(e) Reptiles or amphibians which have been in captivity, including wild-caught and captively-bred individuals or offspring, shall not be released into the wild without the written approval of the department.

Maybe with a little pushing we can get this through to Texas code as well.

Best
Joe

Is what else will ride through with it? There is always the chance that another agenda will be integrated into any well meaning new law to make it a new nightmare somehow.

We should try to regulate ourselves on these matters before going the way of any new legislation.

Lance

>>We should try to regulate ourselves on these matters before going the way of any new legislation.
>>
>>Lance

Not sure what they might piggy back onto that, but if anything esle probably not worth it.

Best
Joe