Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The area I look for snakes was torched this afternoon. 100 acres burned in an hour.

Just this morning I saw two Southern Pacifics and a Ringneck. Is there any hope that I will still find anything there this Summer, or am I out the game?

Jake

especially this time of year, I bet they'll be fine. Around here, they do a lot of prescribed burns to shrubbery, and prairie, and I know that even the amphibs come through relatively unscathed. I have found frogs and sals with burned off toes, but they get by just fine. I hope everything turns out OK down there.

Matt

I have made several studies of this subject. Yes, very few snakes are killed by wildfires. Most of them do make it underground, if they weren't there already. But they do not stay around in the burned area long after the fire because the prey base (food) rapidly disappears.
If your site was in the chaparral, which is adapted to fire, then the absence of snakes is only temporary. As soon as the vegetation comes back next winter, and the prey with it, the snakes will move back in from surrounding habitat next spring.
I have also studied the effect of fire in plant communities that are not adapted to fire (e.g. pinyon-juniper). There it takes many years for the community to re-establish itself.

Thanks - I think the fact that I just asked that question to no-one and got a response from someone who has performed studies on the subject is maybe the greatest thing about the internet! What did we do before??

Jake

e

Good Evening Professor...et al.

I too have been a long term, largely qualitative assessor of numerous burns...& wish to most re-emphasize...this is not a 1 size fits all...topic. Each burn can be unique

Even w/in the site [floral community]... which may or may not be "phyrric" (= fire co-evolved] w/ it.. the timing of the burn, frequency [= fuel load], slope, ...are all independently & then together....constitute big variables that then vary outcomes.

Factor in huge densities of non-native invaders [= exotic annuals] such as here in the Son & Mojavean deserts & public lands fire mngmt becomes a science & burn recovery plans are even tougher to deploy.

Bottom line its a whole lot saner for the long term interest of America to accept & understand the exstreme fragility of our public arid lands; it starts at the integument....the soil crust. The skin must not be ripped open indiscriminately....do implement this ...we must remove the # 1 un-natural crust perturbance where possible [livestock], & start insisting as citizens that our parties publically commit to managing public wildlands for floral recovery & improvement... rather than accepting rates of decline.

Unfortunately...many of us see a dismal transition to an exotic savanah, much like I recall was the fate of the Coastal Calif Grassland....the only biome thus far to be completely lost in NA

Note this Sonoran Box turtle...very likely burned in an exotic bufflegrass fire...brought to Mexico by the aggie-ecologists cloned in the likes of tejas....ah what would life be w/o the arrogance of the slightly educated!!!

LOL. You always forget to mention the brilliance of AZ and CA types who decided that chiles, citrus, and watermelons were a good idea for the low desert. Or are aggies to blame there as well Dude, you crack me up.
Is there always one entity to blame? How about blaming Mexico for listening to those aggies?
Seriously though, I'm very conservation oriented, but I have an incredibly hard time trying to center the blame. Afterall, I imagine you own a house, drive a car, and otherwise enjoy the benefits of living in a developed nation. No?
I also imagine that you are a proponent of high petrol prices.
Shane

...one can always count on an aggie rising to the plug...& Im glad I can give you a chuckle Pity tho...cuz the topic is super serious...
What happens here on private land (chiles/citrus/etc) is not analagous to what happens on PUBLIC lands....huge difference....tho many on these forums dont even get that simple difference as they rant about bulldozers & urban development...

We westerners have political mechanisms that suck taxpayers in populous states like yours...to pay for our water distribution systems that make all these private land endeavors...profitable!
Understand tho...Texas A&M basically wrote the book on "PUBLIC range mngmt"...this includes such genius as...malathion grasshopper control/ horribly fenced multi-pasture intensive rotation schemes / Dragging huge chains between bulldozers / purposeful conversion of the deserts to exotic grass savannahs...are all part of their legacy & I for one will eternally damn them for it.
You & most others not in this business will not likely ever understand the damage that has been wrought.
MY exstreme irritation is that they knew better...& went forward largely to process grant mony. Is treason too strong a term???
Today they're still working on freeze tolerant variants so we can sicken our PUBLIC high country meadows too...
None of my posits re: sane PUBLIC land mngmt has the slightest to do w/ you or I living a "civilized" life....the riteys love to try & reduce an argument to simple absurdities...dont fall for it Shane...you deserve a healthy environment, a robust economy, & the greatest life possible...& to get & keep it...you dont need to waste your life nor your brothers, in Iraq to protect it ... but yes...plan on continuing to pay the market price for petrol...

Saludos y viva los Tejas... John Gunn

Posted by: TxHerper at Sat Jul 16 21:08:20 2005 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

LOL. You always forget to mention the brilliance of AZ and CA types who decided that chiles, citrus, and watermelons were a good idea for the low desert. Or are aggies to blame there as well Dude, you crack me up.
Is there always one entity to blame? How about blaming Mexico for listening to those aggies?
Seriously though, I'm very conservation oriented, but I have an incredibly hard time trying to center the blame. Afterall, I imagine you own a house, drive a car, and otherwise enjoy the benefits of living in a developed nation. No?
I also imagine that you are a proponent of high petrol prices.
Shane

By the way, I'm not an Aggie. I just blame the Mexicans for problems in Mexico. Of course, I also blame Americans for problems in America (and yes, that includes you and me). What I don't do is pretend that saving an ecosystem is in the hands of biologists. But you already know about politics.
Shane

....yeah but where we grossly [& corporately] intruded on what was a ~ reasonably ecologically balanced pastoral life & then bio-nuked their deserts w/ bufflegrass...we have a debt IM-not- so HO...besides we need their oil!
Your latter point tho begins to lift a haze....of course biologists dont make substantive policy...but if they lie to decision makers...or if they routinely say what they know the politicos want to hear....if they are too scared to speak out..like that FBI agent who knew 911 was unfolding...but kept his concerns w/in the bureau....if the lies knowingly harm the motherland....at what point for you does it ceases to be another LOL...& become.... serious....become treason?

Beers, RxR

By the way, I'm not an Aggie. I just blame the Mexicans for problems in Mexico. Of course, I also blame Americans for problems in America (and yes, that includes you and me). What I don't do is pretend that saving an ecosystem is in the hands of biologists. But you already know about politics.
Shane

No worries. Did you actually receive an education? Shane

>>....yeah but where we grossly [& corporately] intruded on what was a ~ reasonably ecologically balanced pastoral life & then bio-nuked their deserts w/ bufflegrass...we have a debt IM-not- so HO...besides we need their oil!
>>Your latter point tho begins to lift a haze....of course biologists dont make substantive policy...but if they lie to decision makers...or if they routinely say what they know the politicos want to hear....if they are too scared to speak out..like that FBI agent who knew 911 was unfolding...but kept his concerns w/in the bureau....if the lies knowingly harm the motherland....at what point for you does it ceases to be another LOL...& become.... serious....become treason?
>>
>>Beers, RxR
>>
>>
>>By the way, I'm not an Aggie. I just blame the Mexicans for problems in Mexico. Of course, I also blame Americans for problems in America (and yes, that includes you and me). What I don't do is pretend that saving an ecosystem is in the hands of biologists. But you already know about politics.
>>Shane
>>

Harold,

I have suspected for some time that the fire itself does not burn the vast majority of snakes (but probably does burn significant quantities of lizards). I assumed that the loss in plant life, insects, rodents, and other prey would cause the remaining reptiles to either starve or migrate and that when the plants came back, that everything else would gradually work its way back into the commmunity. Is there any way I can obtain the studies you mentioned?