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Hi; I have 2 orange banded Georgia locality Eastern chainkings and a black pine snake that become problematic eaters over the winter (expected), and have not picked up a consistant feeding pattern all summer. All are in the 6ft range, approximately 2-3yo, have excellent coloration, and outwardly appear healthy and normal. As far as I know (1 king in question) they are all captive bred, have been isolated from all other animals for the past year and a half, and are feed a diet of F/T rodents.

Housing at the moment are 55gal tanks laying on their sides for front opening providing 48"x22"x12" of cage area. The botton of the tank is covered with a large bath towel with newspaper underneath (they use the towel to hide and it provides traction, and is easy to clean), 2 large plastic containers of substrate (shredded newspaper for the kings, as they are allergic to aspen dust, go figure!, and aspen for the pine). All have a very large water bowl for soaking which they do around shed time. The light they receive is a bit dim as they are staked underneath my lizard cages close to the floor, and I'm wondering if a higher degree of daytime light might make a difference? There are Ultratherm heat pads under the tanks for heating which are presently off because the room reaches the mid 80's many days of the week, and generally doesn't get much below 80 during the summer. Do they prefer cooler temps as adults? They have all been in this room since I got them 1 1/2 years ago and ate perfectly well till they reached adult size, and they all generally synchronize shed!

All of these snakes tend to be extremely active, and in my opinion are frustrated with their current cages. I rehab reptiles and presently have so many cages that expansion upstairs is not possible, but i may be able to build some much larger cages in my darker downstairs if space truely is the issue, and I'll just have to light and heat the snakes ( these rooms are never allowed below 70 during the winter). I should also mention that the larger king has regurged a couple of meals recently, and I'm figuring on giving them all with Flagyl this week in case they have picked something up.

Any suggestions would be helpful, as these 3 are the only snakes I have that will not feed on a consistant basis and I'm getting concerned. I've even tried feeding jumbo mice instead of small rats, and have been met with limited success.

Freight

Sounds like you have some males that are doing their normal breeding prowl. Right now they are more interested in finding a female than food. Many males do this, mine do it one year then not the next ??? Whats the history of the animals you have specifically the GA Easterns (i.e. who is the breeder?)? Any pics ? Would love to see them. I wouldnt worry about it too much its just one of thiose things they do. Probably natures way of stopping them from eating the partners at mating time lol.

Keith

Here is my male 53" F2 Georgia line Eastern. Produced by Will Still from Kevin Enge animals (Echols Co. X Tift Co.). He is a 2003 hatch.
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Keith,

Dude. I can't even explain it, the eastern king is the most spectacular looking kingsnake I have ever seen. That thing is just awesome to the fullest extent of the word 'awesome' lol.

Man. I'm jealous.
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Michael's Place has updated, better caresheets
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
Helmz777@aol.com
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake

What about the regurge the man commented about? Then, great king, Kieth!
Todd Hughes

We covered that as well below. I think it needs a vet trip to be safe and to cover all the bases.

Keith

>>What about the regurge the man commented about? Then, great king, Kieth!
>> Todd Hughes
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I had no idea they did that! Well, you learn something new every day! I'll work on the pics, as I don't yet know how to post them, but it's on my agenda for the near future. One of the males is the one I got from you that you got from Will Still with the very wide bands and the obscure pattern, and he looks alot like the one you have posted. The other has much thinner and more uniform bands and is a bit smaller, as he's a bit of a picky eater.

I was wondering if brumation helps instill a more normal yearly balance with these guys, and if maybe they would go in to a more normal cycle if I put them down for a bit this winter? Its worked for other snakes I have, as far as eating is concerned that is.

Freight

lol Now I remember that you signed as Freight ! That male was a beauty I wish I had kept him. He is the older brother to mine hence the resemblance(sp.). You Im guessin they are looking for love. It still wouldnt hurt to get some fecals though.Post pics if you can I would love to see how he is lookin.

Keith

>>I had no idea they did that! Well, you learn something new every day! I'll work on the pics, as I don't yet know how to post them, but it's on my agenda for the near future. One of the males is the one I got from you that you got from Will Still with the very wide bands and the obscure pattern, and he looks alot like the one you have posted. The other has much thinner and more uniform bands and is a bit smaller, as he's a bit of a picky eater.
>>
>>I was wondering if brumation helps instill a more normal yearly balance with these guys, and if maybe they would go in to a more normal cycle if I put them down for a bit this winter? Its worked for other snakes I have, as far as eating is concerned that is.
>>
>>Freight
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Here is the pic of Helix. He is the one I got from 2 Halloweens ago. Check out the pic on the next post, as I discovered a strange bulge in his belly.

Freight

I dont think thats normal. He might have some infection going on in his intestines or a parasite possible a blackage of some kind. Its too hard to tell from pics. I would get him too a vet ASAP. ANother note is he always that thick ? He looks pretty plump. I know he isnt eating but when he resumes you might wanna scale back the food a bit as its unhealthy for a snake to be overweight. You can tell an overweight snake when the scales look seperated (as they look in the pics). Anyway thats down the road and something to think about. For now get that snake to a vet.Good luck and keep us posted. He looks quite beautiful by the way.

Keith

>>Here is the pic of Helix. He is the one I got from 2 Halloweens ago. Check out the pic on the next post, as I discovered a strange bulge in his belly.
>>
>>Freight
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I'm glad I noticed the bulge last night and I'll get in touch with the vet today.

Thanx

Freight

I noticed this semetrical bulge about 12 inches frontal of the vent as I was taking pics of Helix this evening, and i'm wondering if this can be related to the breeding season theory at all?

Freight

I just noticed the regurge comment. Might be not a bad idea to get some stool samples on them or just an overall vet check. What are your temps ?

Keith

>>Hi; I have 2 orange banded Georgia locality Eastern chainkings and a black pine snake that become problematic eaters over the winter (expected), and have not picked up a consistant feeding pattern all summer. All are in the 6ft range, approximately 2-3yo, have excellent coloration, and outwardly appear healthy and normal. As far as I know (1 king in question) they are all captive bred, have been isolated from all other animals for the past year and a half, and are feed a diet of F/T rodents.
>>
>>Housing at the moment are 55gal tanks laying on their sides for front opening providing 48"x22"x12" of cage area. The botton of the tank is covered with a large bath towel with newspaper underneath (they use the towel to hide and it provides traction, and is easy to clean), 2 large plastic containers of substrate (shredded newspaper for the kings, as they are allergic to aspen dust, go figure!, and aspen for the pine). All have a very large water bowl for soaking which they do around shed time. The light they receive is a bit dim as they are staked underneath my lizard cages close to the floor, and I'm wondering if a higher degree of daytime light might make a difference? There are Ultratherm heat pads under the tanks for heating which are presently off because the room reaches the mid 80's many days of the week, and generally doesn't get much below 80 during the summer. Do they prefer cooler temps as adults? They have all been in this room since I got them 1 1/2 years ago and ate perfectly well till they reached adult size, and they all generally synchronize shed!
>>
>>All of these snakes tend to be extremely active, and in my opinion are frustrated with their current cages. I rehab reptiles and presently have so many cages that expansion upstairs is not possible, but i may be able to build some much larger cages in my darker downstairs if space truely is the issue, and I'll just have to light and heat the snakes ( these rooms are never allowed below 70 during the winter). I should also mention that the larger king has regurged a couple of meals recently, and I'm figuring on giving them all with Flagyl this week in case they have picked something up.
>>
>>Any suggestions would be helpful, as these 3 are the only snakes I have that will not feed on a consistant basis and I'm getting concerned. I've even tried feeding jumbo mice instead of small rats, and have been met with limited success.
>>
>>Freight
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Its pretty rare to see this room get much below 80 during the summer, and i do my best to not let it get over 85, but there are occasions where it will get a bit hotter till I get the A/C on, but usually not for very long. I think the regurges could have been partially due to overeating, but since this one is a real pig usually, I'm not sure that's the whole issue.

Freight

Let the enclosures stay around the mid 70s if possible. The snakes are probably over heating.

Also, try live mice. Get a couple live mice, young adults that move around alot, and put them in with the snakes in the evening.

Mike
Michael's Place

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Michael's Place has updated, better caresheets
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
Helmz777@aol.com
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake

Since your suggesting this i might has well say that I have been considering moving them to the cooler downstairs, as I've been wondering if they are not liking the temps up here. What temps would you suggest, just out of curiosity?

Freight

.
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Michael's Place has updated, better caresheets
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
Helmz777@aol.com
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake

Well maybe we do have a bit of a temp problem then! The temps don't seem to be having any negative effects on my other species, as most are tropical, but I guess these guys are a bit more particular, so I'll start looking into getting them downstairs!

Thanx

Freight

I'm gonna go with Mike on the heating issue, but definitely get the one to a vet with the samples to check for parasites as Kieth suggested.
Todd Hughes

Maybe being housed under the lizards enclosures they are picking up some parasites?
Todd Hughes

I took all the snakes in question to the vet Saturday, and all showed very slisht sign of respiratory illness and are now on Amikacin. The signs were redness in the upper palate, as well as a small amount of frothyness in the oral mucous. Nothing terrible but notable and worth treating.

All were treated with Flagyl and will be treated once more next week. There were no stool samples to be had on that day, so I'll try to get some together this week.

The worse part of this is that the one snkae with the lump in his body appears to have osteitis, which as i understand it causes inflamation and softening of bone. Once we stretched the snake out I began to notice other small areas that were protruding, and as far as i've ever seen this only gets worse with time. I'm trying to find a suitable treatment plan for snakes, as there was only info online for humans, and I'm not sure about drug reactions in reptiles, so I've contacted my other vet for details.

I'm going to find a new and cooler area for these snakes, and hopefully that will calm things down a bit, as I'm sure they are not liking the warmer temps. We'll see how things go from there.

Freight