Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all.

This little fella hatched out today. He is the second leo I've hatched out this year, after losing 14 eggs to a defective ESU reptile thermostat.

Like the first one that hatched, this guy is deformed.

He has no eyelids.

He appears to be fine in all other ways, and is larger and less deformed then the first to hatch. (First one had jaw/facial deformities).

The first one died a week after it hatched, in the middle of its first shed.

I have 21 eggs left. Ask me if I'm nervous.

The 1.4 albinos from who this guy was created were purchased from a KS.ca breeder and I'm starting to wonder what kind of deal I really got.

More pics soon.

Joel
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3.6 Leopard Geckos (1.4 Albino)
~~20 Leo eggs cookin'~~
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 African Fat Tail Gecko
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.0 Blair's Phase Gray Banded Kingsnake

Pic:

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3.6 Leopard Geckos (1.4 Albino)
~~20 Leo eggs cookin'~~
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 African Fat Tail Gecko
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.0 Blair's Phase Gray Banded Kingsnake

no offense but you never know

it usually would not cause deformities like that.
-adam

it could certnly cause deforiteis like that.

it could certnly cause deforiteis like that.given that the problem is in the line. both sibblings would carry the messed DNA that creates eyelid genes and you have a much higher chance of getting the problem.

The thermostat screwed up, thus causeing a temp flux.
And certain breeders have ben line breeding leos for years, So inbreeding once isn't that big a deal honestly. Heck....people still inbreed dogs all the time.

I agree with armiyana nearly every, if not all of the unusual color and pattern morphs available today are the direct result of inbreeding. Yes, it can cause deformities but most breeders agree it is nearly 100% safe for three to four generations and many breeders inbreed for much longer.

there is a differance between breeding mother to son and sister to brother. In the dog world it is not accetable to breed litter mates. 1/2 bro x 1/2 sis is also frowned on but still done some. mother to son and father to daughter is done as well as uncle x niece ect. the general rule of thumb is don' breed clutch mates or sibblings ( i.e. brother sister) i dont nowif this is practiced in leos but in most other forms of animal breeding that is a pretty sted fast rule.

Line breeding (inbreeding) in leos is a fairly common practice with breeders.

that were from siblings bred together. It's all listed right there in hard copy.

Some people just seem to think that's the best way to get a trait started in an animal.
While yes, sibling to sibling is more dangerous than breeding father to daughter/mother to son, reptiles are genetically different from mammals and seem to take inbreeding a bit better. A single generation of siblings means almost nothing. Now continuous over the next couple of years...that's bad. Any more than 2 years and you're asking for trouble.

And I do agree that breeding siblings is worse on the genetics than breeding F1 to F2, I don't think a sngle instance would cause a defect like that. Maybe if they were patternless leos, being that they already seem to have a few genetic problems linked to thier genes from previous inbreeding.

I know the cause of that....its a vitamin A defficiency in the mother....The same thing happand to the albino i bought from garrick at crestedgecko.com ( i was aware o it whe i bought him garrick had it posted) dont worry tho its not ginetic and wont effect his breeding
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-Bryan

What you guys are saying. and I have my doubts it is a genetic thing too. i just wanted to see if they where sibs or not so that could be ruled out right away or if the animals had been bred to any other animal other than each other and what it produced and if it produced any defects.

My infectious dieses teacher always said rule out the most unlikely first. And that will narrow you down.

Mat

Joel,
it sounds like nothing is wrong with your breeder animals, i am assuming they are fine... it sounds like temp fluctuations rather than any genetic deformity. are you trying tremper incubation method? or are you trying the "normal" method?.... i know ALOT of people who used the tremper method this year and have gotten just what you have defortmities and loss of eggs. keep your chin up purchase a raytek temp gun (bout $99, the best money ever spent)you can check your temps VERY accuratly and on a direct area or spot. get a ranco thermostat they are very inexpensive as far as good thermostats go.......... until then keep a CLOSE eye on ambient,room temps, humidity levels and temps inside the incubator and container the eggs are in. i lost alot of eggs earlier this season due to a temp flux and had some deformed babies, so i know what you are going through..... hang in there
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-robin day
Geckoheads And Geeks

Just out of curiosity, could you tell me what supplements you use, and how you use them.
thanks
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

See my post above...

forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=84662,84662 ... Thanks
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3.6 Leopard Geckos (1.4 Albino)
~~20 Leo eggs cookin'~~
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 African Fat Tail Gecko
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.0 Blair's Phase Gray Banded Kingsnake