Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hearing about all these deformities happening to people really makes me nervous about incubating the eggs my female just layed for me today. I'm incubating them on top of a shelf that stays around 81-83 degrees. Maybe its just that you only hear about the bad experiences, but I would hate to have to deal with something like that. A question for experienced breeders...Is it really as common as it sounds sometimes to have deformities? The shelf that I'm keeping them on has a little variation in temp, about two degrees F, hence my nervousness. Any imput is appreciated, Later
Mac

right now are due to improper use of the 'Tremper method'
Basically, you incubate for a female and wait 20 days, then you gradually up the temps to 90 degrees for better color. Seems a lot of people are waiting too little before knocking up the temp or just going from 82 to 90 with no gradual process.

I've hatched out two deformed leos this year due to an incubation and humidity issue. The eggs got too humid, 6 died and the other 2 that hatched out were deformed. I'm still not sure if it had to do with the tems raising to almost 95 or if the humidity got to be too much or both.
Also... the two that hatched with deformities were from unrelated parents and were from 2 different parents. One was from my blizzard/het pair and the other my albino/albino pair

If you incubate at a steady temp and a proper humidity there shouldn't be any problems. I hatched out 7 healthy happy babies last year. This year I've hatched 10 babies and 2 were deformed from the before mentioned problem. I still have 6 good looking eggs. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed

what you said about the "tremper method" makes sense, but it's not how Tremper explains it on his site. he says to wait only 14 days, and to simply move them to 90, nothing about gradually moving them. here is exactly what he says:

A) Sex in leopard geckos is determined within the first 2-weeks of incubation. So if you let albino eggs experience 78-83F for 14 days that will lock in the female sex and then you merely move those female eggs to a constant 90F for the remainder of incubation to get the best looking possible female offspring.
-----
your head will collapse, but there's nothing in it, and you'll ask yourself, "where is my mind"

if you have AIM, IM me at iluvblackfrancis

I am no experts in Leo breeding my any means, and I certainly will differ to the more experienced over my knowledge based solely on class and book knowledge with no practical experience.
With that said we need to ask a few questions. That maybe Ron can answer.

1) Does he ever experience deformities with his method, and if so how many
2) Is the fact that we are moving the eggs incubation temp up at a time when organs and such are forming causing the babies to experience a teratogenic (Sp? Effect of a Teratogen) affect.
3) Should we wait maybe a little longer at the lower temp to be certain that all the parts have formed or at least started forming correctly?
4) is the fact that since these animals are temperature sexed does the temperature in some way affect the Ph of the leos body rendering specific DNA enzymes to function improperly. For instance if the animal is incubated at 78-82 degrees does that cause a Ph change in the body and when they are raised the enzymes that where formed to work in female hatchlings are hindered or useless at a higher temp do to the fact that the higher temp is creating more male enzymes (enzymes are greatly affected by Ph levels)
5) Is this problem with the animal or its environment is the first thing that has to be figured out. I think you guys are doing great work towards this problem. And like I said I am just applying some things that I have learned in my course of study to this problem to try and come up with a direction to proceed.

I say yes to all those. I think ( no basis other than rational thought) that Ron probally has quite a few deformaties. I also think that the organs are just in the forming stage at 2 weeks. I also believe that the change in enzymes does alter the DNA and effects more than just the color how could it not. I also have a question based on this. If the DNA is affected which it apparently must be because color is a DNA affected detail how does the effect on other DNA related building blocks effect the DNA building system of the offspring or the offsprings offspring? Are we breaking down the genetic build?
-----
Even if your on the right track you will get run over if you just sit there

someone saying it was 20 days instead of the 14 Ron states, Sorry...I wasn't clear on that ^_^;
I do agree that the 14 days still sems a bit early. 20 seems more realistic a time to bump up the temps a little bit at a time.

I know that the deformaties I had were from incubation problems early on in deveolopment.

i emailed him about how he switches temps, all at once, or gradually. i also asked if he notices a higher rate of deformities, i'll tell you what he says when i get a reply.
-----
your head will collapse, but there's nothing in it, and you'll ask yourself, "where is my mind"

if you have AIM, IM me at iluvblackfrancis

there have been quite a few posted here lately. I agree that some are from the tremper method which I don't recommend to anyone. Also though some are fron vitamin imbalance,genetic malfunction,humidity,temp spikes etc,etc. The biggest reason I think we see quite a few deformaties is that in nature those eggs would not have probally even hatched, but in our captive care they actually make it.
-----
Even if your on the right track you will get run over if you just sit there