Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Once more into the breach dear friends ... apologies to Mr Shakespeare ..

Dear Hot-philes;

Basically, there is NO press reports of any children being bitten by hots kept at home back to 1994. There are some python/boa/lizard bite events … but nothing involving hots.

A quick sweep of various guns-at-home-and-children sites and venom-treatment sites have resulted in a variety of interesting numbers. I’ve looted some numbers from various sites and jammed them together in paragraphs to illustrate the various points. Numbers flutuate a bit from year-to-year, but the trends are solid ... to wit ...

Gunfire killed 4,643 U.S. infants, children and teens in 1996, alarming figures, yet still the lowest American gun death toll since 1989. In 1998, 2,215 children and teenagers were murdered with guns, 1,241 committed suicide with guns, and 336 died in unintentional shootings. A total of 3,792 young people were killed by firearms. In 1999, there were 3,385 firearms-related deaths for children ages 0–19 years. They break down as follows: 214 unintentional, 1,078 suicides, 1,990 homicides, 83 for which the intent could not be determined, and 20 due to legal intervention.
Wes note for above ... so far, I have not found figures to break-down child-fatality-from-firearms to events that involved a firearm kept in the house, however, press involving shootings of children at home often mentioned that the family kept a gun at home.

In the US: Snakebites frequently go unreported. Approximately 4000-8000 bites are reported to national centers each year. The national average is approximately 4 bites per 100,000 persons.
Deaths secondary to snake bites are rare. The national average has been less than 4 deaths per year for the last several years.
Rattlesnake bites in children are rarely reported. Of the 8000 venomous bites that occur in the United States each year, half involve persons under the age of 20. The reported rate of fatalities occurring from envenomation is roughly 1 to 20 per year, with reports of 20% of deaths occurring in children

Dear Hot-philes;

Basically, there is NO press reports of any children being bitten by hots kept at home back to 1994. There are some python/boa/lizard bite events … but nothing involving hots.

A quick sweep of various guns-at-home-and-children sites and venom-treatment sites have resulted in a variety of interesting numbers. I’ve looted some numbers from various sites and jammed them together in paragraphs to illustrate the various points. Numbers flutuate a bit from year-to-year, but the trends are solid ... to wit ...

Gunfire killed 4,643 U.S. infants, children and teens in 1996, alarming figures, yet still the lowest American gun death toll since 1989. In 1998, 2,215 children and teenagers were murdered with guns, 1,241 committed suicide with guns, and 336 died in unintentional shootings. A total of 3,792 young people were killed by firearms. In 1999, there were 3,385 firearms-related deaths for children ages 0–19 years. They break down as follows: 214 unintentional, 1,078 suicides, 1,990 homicides, 83 for which the intent could not be determined, and 20 due to legal intervention.
Wes note for above ... so far, I have not found figures to break-down child-fatality-from-firearms to events that involved a firearm kept in the house, however, press involving shootings of children at home often mentioned that the family kept a gun at home.

In the US: Snakebites frequently go unreported. Approximately 4000-8000 bites are reported to national centers each year. The national average is approximately 4 bites per 100,000 persons.
Deaths secondary to snake bites are rare. The national average has been less than 4 deaths per year for the last several years.
Rattlesnake bites in children are rarely reported. Of the 8000 venomous bites that occur in the United States each year, half involve persons under the age of 20. The reported rate of fatalities occurring from envenomation is roughly 1 to 20 per year, with reports of 20% of deaths occurring in children under 5 years of age. Despite these statistics, envenomation in children is rarely reported in the medical literature.
{Wes note: The critical 'so what' here is that even though there are more venomous bites-per-year affecting all ages than there are child-deaths-from-guns ... medical reports and a distinct lack of press reporting back to 94, confirm that no children in America died from venomous bite from snakes (domestic or foreign) kept at home … unlike the gun numbers}

Ladies and Gentlemen, from where I type, there is no comparison in the ‘threat/danger’ provided to children by having a secured gun or a secured hot in the home …. Guns are historically proven a more significant danger by an overwhelming factor … based on the reported medical facts and lack of anti-hot press involving snakebites at home, the past risk of hots at home to children has been negligible.

respects
Wes (helmet on …)

Selected data from:
http://www.commondreams.org/pressreleases/Oct98/101298a.htm
http://www.bradycenter.org/stop2/facts/fs4.php
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922329.html
http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic2143.htm
http://www.wemjournal.org/wmsonline/?request=get-document&issn=1080-6032&volume=012&issue=03&page=0184
http://members.iinet.net.au/~bush/myth.html

1. There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.
2. If enough data is collected, anything may be proven by statistical methods.
Thanks to: http://www.autobox.com/statjoke.html

Thanks Wes

This is very important data to help with the fight to keep hot legal where they may become illegal.

Al
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"Fighting on the forums is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded."

DH June 2005

Personally, I am staunchly pro-gun ownership and support people's choice to own hots. I like snakes, but will never own a venomous one myself, but support your choice to do so.

One thing to consider besides raw numbers would be comparing like incidences, assuming that nearly all envonomations are accidental/negligent, and comparing to accidental/shooting shootings.

Another factor would be incidents rates. Considering that in the U.S., an estimated 80 - 100 million people own guns and far fewer own hots, so far more households have guns than hots.

Also, Brady Campaign data is kind of dubious. They consider children to be anyone up to 19. This includes a lot of teenage gang members. An interesting comparison would also be to compare incidence rates where the hot and the firearm were legally owned.

Dave:

I'm also pro-gun ownership, so no worries there. I also realize that any information can be "spun" to validate any point you want. This sort of infomation can be useful just to represent the "relative" hazard between two to the legislative bodies thinking about pending laws. All it does or should do it to put the issue in perspective for the lawmakers.

Al
-----
"Fighting on the forums is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded."

DH June 2005

Actually as a pro gunner and a pro hotter I would say that a loaded firearm and "tubed" hot probably represent the same level of danger. IDIOTS can lose control of either one and crate first class tragadies for the anti gun and anti herp crowds to blab all over the newspapers.

Quite frankly they could even do that with NON HOTS if their herp becomes the source of a lethal Salmonella case in a child or immmunocompromized person due to neglegent hygene practices.

Therefore the basic problem seems to be IDIOTS, not guns, herps or Salmonella.

Keep in mind that many of these "children" killed by firearms include the "precious" 14-19 year old gang members. The anti-gun lobby has quite a strong grip on statistics reporting.

It goes back to the adage about there being three kinds of lies; Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

-J

I was going to post those findings you sent but Ya beat me to it LOL. It would seem I was not too far off the mark in my belief. Guns require much more policing than venomous snakes it would appear...

Thanks Wes!

Brett