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Palpating question.

vichris Jul 16, 2005 09:26 PM

My female Thayeri that already laid one clutch is going into the blue. She laid her clutch on June 15th. She appears to to gravid again but I'm really not positive. I noticed today that she is going into the blue. I've palpated her and it feels like eggs but I'm not really sure if its just folicles. I have had her with 3 of my males and she always looked to be shaking off the boys. I've been feeding her like a pig too. When I fed her a couple of days ago she would only eat one smallish mouse. Does anyone have any surefire palpating technique they wish to share? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Here's a current pic of the patient.

Vichris

Replies (7)

jlassiter Jul 16, 2005 11:16 PM

Chris I would keep re introducing a male or just keep him in the same enclosure. Also I would go ahead and put a dark lay box in with her just in case she wants to lay her eggs or slugs...
Sometimes they will produce eggs the second go around and just plain out turn down males....Then they will lay infertile eggs. If she retained any viable sperm she may just lay good eggs....It is hard to tell....I wish you luck bro.
John Lassiter

mexicanamak Jul 17, 2005 03:21 AM

Don't have a tremendous amount of personal experience with palpating and I know you are looking an old pro to jump in, but here is something recent to share if it may help at all...

One of my alterna females just recently laid her second clutch without a second breeding, her first clutch being infertile. She fed heavily after this first clutch, put on good weight quickly and when palpated appeared gravid again, however I was certain that most if not all eggs were infertile again with possibly a couple of exceptions. Two of them definitely felt larger and more solid with the remaining eggs being barely noticeable and hard to feel. Palpating a female as I am learning is not an easy thing to figure out but as I practice on females that have never been bred and compare to those that have, I am developing the feel for it. Don't really know how to describe what it is I am feeling other than the lumps feel larger and more filled out than they usually do. I think it is just a matter of practice makes perfect and eventually our fingers learn what it is they are feeling around for.

I have been keeping a large damp moss tub in with my females all summer long. They like to use it on occasion regardless and when in doubt, if they surprise me they have their place to lay their clutch.

This alterna female laid a second clutch of 8 eggs total, 2 very nice fertile eggs this time and not having had a male re-introduced at all. I had resigned myself to the fact that I would'nt get any babies from her this year. In fact, I didn't want her to produce a second clutch if I could avoid it as I felt she was way too thin. But here I go... looks like 2 babies are well on the way and those 2 eggs are looking great.

This supports what John just touched upon and what a wise old timer once told him... these animals are in control and we just take care of them the best we can, do all the dirty work and manage what happens. Actually the saying was... "the snakes are in the drivers seat and we are just along for the ride"... and how true it appears to be. Hearing that, along with the basic knowledge of trying to understand how these animals work as presented to us over in the general forum by Frank Retes and his wisdom, has certainly helped me to relax and get a good feeling for how to better manage my husbandry. It starts to get fairly easy after a while, but never a bit boring!

Mike

vichris Jul 17, 2005 05:34 PM

I'm going on the assumption that she is gravid. When I palpate her it sure feels like eggs. I think its just a case of her knowing a helluvalot more about what's going on than I do. LOL

David W. told me that this female double clutched on her own in 2003. He said that he intro'd John L's High yellow male with her but that she rebuffed him. ( What a beotch, to rebuff that handsome devil LOL)
My hope is that history is about to repeat itself. She laid on June 15. My guess is that she will shed on or about July 20-21, and another 9 or 10 days till she lays is about right. Wish me luck guys, and I'll try and control the petty jealousy. Ha ha.

Chris G

mexicanamak Jul 17, 2005 06:15 PM

...and I see that David posted 4 babies from her second '03 clutch so I would lay money on the fact that you get at least a few viable eggs out of her this time around. Such a cool thing that these females can do this, and it sounds like your female is designed to do it automatically being that she refuses the male on the second go. The perfect female! Congrats in advance... cause I know she is gonna do it!

On another note... seeing that David tells you that she refused Big Yeller for a second breeding in '03, he must have been guessing at the father of the '03E clutch seeing as he posted the big yellow stud as the father. Or maybe he just may have missed it and wasn't sure so he drew straws?!! lol! Seems to make more sense now that your Torres male was indeed the carried-over sire for the E clutch being that there is so much orange in both '03 B and E clutches.

Hmmmmmmm...??? I guess my Weymouth '03E01 male has a new daddy!!!

Good luck with her my friend, she is a terrific female no doubt!

Mike

mexicanamak Jul 17, 2005 06:18 PM

Now I wonder who the heck the father really is to all the other Weymouth '03's I have here?!???

vichris Jul 17, 2005 08:35 PM

Yes Mike, I've been mulling over the same stuff in my head for the past couple of months too. Part of me wants to believe that John's "big yeller" is the sire of that 03 "E" clutch too.

You've got to admit that E01 looks one heck of alot like big yeller but so does B01?!?!?!?!? All I can say is there are some smokin genes floating around in those eggs and I'm about to go postal waiting for these babies to hatch out. If she lays a 2nd clutch I'm gonna have to start wearing Depends. LOL I've got 11 eggs that all still look very viable. WAITING SUCKS

Chris

mexicanamak Jul 17, 2005 08:57 PM

"I'm about to go postal waiting for these babies to hatch out. If she lays a 2nd clutch I'm gonna have to start wearing Depends. LOL"

ROFLMAO!!!!! Chris, you crack me up! lol!!! You're a maniac...

And agreed, the genes are crankin' in those eggs and you are in for a real treat I think! I love it.

Mike

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