Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted this in the racer forum and they pretty much all agreed, I thought I'd check here and see what your reactions were::
I have to say that while cornsnakes are calmer, Racers are far more intelligent and engaging, even if there interaction tends to be more aggressive. Next to racers a cornsnake is kind of retarded, racers demand more respect, and thats okay by me, I still find them to be a far more interesting and rewarding pet then a cornsnake, just my opinion.

I may be wrong but based on what you just wrote it sounds more like you came here to start a flame war than start a serious conversation about corns vs. racers.
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1.0 normal corn snakes
3.6 normals het stripe and snow corn snakes
0.1 amels corn snakes
1.0 striped amels corn snakes
0.1 striped snows corn snakes
1.0 lavenders het opal corn snakes
0.1 opals corn snakes
1.1 blizzards corn snakes
1.1 pewters corn snakes
0.1 boa constrictors
1.1 western hognose

I'll settle for either really, a flame war, if there are intellegent arguments, isn't such a bad thing.

Just what do you mean by retarded??
What are the major differences that you see between corns and racers??
You will need to explain you side for all of us corn owners to explain how you are wrong.....
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Cory
Corns
1.0 Snow "Ghost"
1.1 Milkphase "Big Guy and Little Girl"
1.1 Anerythiristic "Gray Beard and Shadow"
0.2 Okeetee "Copper and Anna"
1.1 Bloodreds het Pewter
0.1 Crimson "Minnie"
1.0 Sunglow "Sunny"
Kings
1.0 California "Zeb"
1.0 Florida "Freak"
Milks
1.1 Pueblan
Lots of mice and rats

retarded.backwards.....behind in development.........slow......stupid........

yep...alot of people fit that bill.....

as for racers Vs cornsnakes......

corns......good genetically healthy corns.....eat....wild corns....eat in captivity usually......

racer.....crazy acting wild throwing tantrums...nutzo......not feeding well in captivity.......

racer......always act scared......

corn...."hey man wassup" attitude......after they get a few meals in them.....

......racers and corns..........let's see...........there are millions of corns being bred in many many countries around the world.......

racers....they sell wild caught crap that is stolen from the wild............cheap.........

(yes they sell wild corns)........but they also sell captives.

forget it....racers lose in all races........

.........even in the wild.......corn sees a human...runs slowly kinda up the nearest tree.........racer dashes off at 80 mph into the swamp....where a gator eats it.......

tadaa

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................aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhOK

That was good!

Kerby...

fast snakes w/ attitudes,Remember just cause its a fish it does'nt mean you can just throw it in your aquarium

Just cause they are fast and can be aggresive..doesnt mean they are bad snakes. I have kept racers...and they ate just fine..
I have two wc coachwhips that eat very well...They just require more respect

By retarded I mean that if snakes were people, Racers would doctors or lawers and cornsnakes would be P.E. teachers.

racers would be crooked lawyers.........corns would be chefs and Indian chiefs.........
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................aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhOK

To each his own. I happen to like my nice,sweet,quiet corn snakes. As for intelligence, just because your snakes are more active is not a sign of intelligence. So they move more, big deal. If that's what blows your skirt up good for you. No need to be insulting. (hey, just some friendly bantering): )
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Suzanne
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0.1 Albino Okeetee Corn - Scout
0.1 Snow Corn - Lilly

its not that they are more active, it's that they are more responsive, and interactive. When you enter a room where a racer is caged, they lift up their heads and look right at you. Having binocular vision helps, thats another thing they have over cornsnakes. Racers tend to lag behind in the freindlyness department, but I would argue that they are far more intelligent.

Dude just shut up, its not that racers are alert there parnoid, while corns are just cool, there not all jumpy and goin all over the place...

>>Dude just shut up, its not that racers are alert there parnoid, while corns are just cool, there not all jumpy and goin all over the place...

This is a fun debate...he can voice his opinion, it's cool.
we know he is wrong so it makes it more interesting with every response...lol
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes
Available

Ok Jimmy sorry i got out of hand on that one lol... true we are right.. lol..

I dont see how he is wrong. Its just his opinon..i keep coachwhips and corns...they are just different snakes..i would have to aggree that the coachwhips are more responsive to whats going on around... But i do like my corns...the kids can hold them without worry and they are very easy to keep

>>I posted this in the racer forum and they pretty much all agreed, I thought I'd check here and see what your reactions were::
>>I have to say that while cornsnakes are calmer, Racers are far more intelligent and engaging, even if there interaction tends to be more aggressive. Next to racers a cornsnake is kind of retarded, racers demand more respect, and thats okay by me, I still find them to be a far more interesting and rewarding pet then a cornsnake, just my opinion.

My opinion
Racers are satan's spawn.
Hate the damn things.
They will strike the glass as you walk by.
They will strike the glass if they think you may walk by.
They will strike the glass if you walked by yesterday.
Just too spastic for me. I don't find it enjoyable to have a snake that spends 99.9 percent of the time trying to bite.
The other .1 percent is when they are eating or drinking and just don't have time, for those few seconds, to be psychotic.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes
Available

Hey Rick, whattup man? Nice to meet you...this is a fun post.

I decided to randomly surf the racer forum today and checked out your post there and am glad to see that you also posted it here. Both forums are pretty boring with the same basic questions here on the corn forum and usually nothing on the racer forum!

Here's what I have to say abotu the subject... I've never had a racer! I like a snake that knows how to chill....

I will agree that racers must be very interesting snakes to watch for a while. I've never been more focused or interested on my snakes except for the FEW times they've been aggressive! So you have a point there with your racer vs. corn thoughts.

Another view since you're curious how people are going to take the "retarded" comment. Well, I can totally understand your view point and agree with it in some ways but I can also totally make it the opposite! You could say racers are one of the most retarded of all snakes because, in respect to a corn, calm down and "chill." Corns understand that we are not a threat very quickly and just like to hang out, say whattup, chill, relaxin' in their cage. One could say Racers are too psychotic and retarded to ever adapt or understand.

But I agree that is why they are interesting =].

Peace out time to go have a smoke with my corn in one hand.

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Matt from Minnesota

That's the first valid arguement that I've heard. You could say that racers are too stupid to adapt, or you could say that they are independant and strong willed, I guess it depends on your perspective. Personally I tend to see them as the latter. With a cornsnake, it's pretty easy to get one where both you and the snake is comfortable with you wrapping it around your neck, but you do that with a racer and you 've really accomplished something. I was hoping to shake things up a bit with this post, A heated debate about something your passionate about is heathly and fun thing.

>>It's good that you like the racers...You can take them all.
Please...take them all.
I've never been fond of water snakes (nerodia in this area), I always thought they were angry little monsters but I have actually seen a few get fairly tame. I'd rather handle nerodia all day long as opposed to racers. I have never seen a racer get anywhere close to tame. If that is smart I guess that makes them genious but I would find that logic suspect.
I would think the higher the intellegence the more easily they can adapt. That would put corns way way way above racers...LOL
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes
Available

Its funny, if it were a human trait we would say that someone who adapts to captivity, i.e. prisoner or slave, is a broken person, we certainly wouldn’t equate it with intelligence.

>>Its funny, if it were a human trait we would say that someone who adapts to captivity, i.e. prisoner or slave, is a broken person, we certainly wouldn’t equate it with intelligence.

hmmmm...broken does fit doesn't it?
interesting.
BUT, I still don't like 'em, don't want 'em and would be glad to see them all slither off in your direction...lol
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes
Available

People are also comparing wc racers to cb corns. You can take the snake and have a wc nasty one and a cb calm one. Its definelty possible to have a calm racer or coachwhip. I think the reason they are not is because nobody breeds them.
I will be breeding coachwhips next year...it will be intersting to see how the attitude is different in the cb ones

Well, I would just like to start by saying this is the only experience I have ever had with a racer. But it has forever influenced my opinion that they are completely and uterly retarded! My friend had a racer for a while and once when he was feeding it, it ate just fine, but then after it was put back into the cage it started freaking out and strikeing at EVERYTHING! we sat back and watched it throw it's tantrum and then out of nowhere it turned around and started sniffing its tail area.... after sniffing for about 5 seconds it agressively bit onto it's tail and refused to let go untill it was held under the faucet for about 5 minutes! So which snake is more retarded?
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Road Hog"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches" (Didn't name her!)

I think your story supports my arguement better. It sounds like there was a lot more going on in the mind of that racer then would have been in the average cornsnake that probably would have went right for it's usual hiding spot and curled up for the next 10 hours. I doubt you would have had as much fun watching a cornsnake after feeding!

So your saying that the fact that the snake bit the crap out of it self makes it smart? So by your standards, if I shot myself repeatedly in the foot I would be a genious? I would love to be smart by your standards!
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Road Hog"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches" (Didn't name her!)

in comparison to laying down and doing nothing for ten hours, yes shooting yourself in the foot would prove that you were at least more intelligent then the average watermellon.

I have to say I think it's kind of stupid to argue that snakes have intelligence or "thought processes" at all. The reptile brain is pretty much set up as a stimulus-response mechanism that comes down to can I eat it or can it eat me?, and it responds instinctually. Anything else a snakes does, like leaving a hide to defecate, or thermoregulating, is also instinctual. There aren't any "thoughts." So, what we're really arguing about are adaptive behaviors. Racers are adapted to chase down their food and kill it, whereas corns are adapted for stealth and constriction. Really it's just a matter of whether you like active snakes, with all that entails (biting you, biting its own tail, striking at the glass), or more sedentary snakes with all that entails (coiling up in a hide for the next ten hours). Honestly, I'd prefer that my corns be more active, but I wouldn't trade them for racers.

Lets see.........

drab and psychotic vs colorful and calm...
That's a HARD one!!!

I wonder which forum sees more action....
I wonder which species is more widely kept.....
I wonder why that is....

>>Lets see.........
>>
>>drab and psychotic vs colorful and calm...
>>That's a HARD one!!!
>>
>>I wonder which forum sees more action....
>>I wonder which species is more widely kept.....
>>I wonder why that is....

If you have read my posts you know I hate the little devil's spawn...BUT
I have seen some absolutely beautiful racers.
Black as night with a noticeable blue sheen in the light and an almost liguid looking milky white belly.
I have to admit some of the one's Ive seen would be in my collection if they weren't sychotic.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes
Available

speckled racers are very pretty snakes...

Thanks for posting this, I've had a few good laughs...
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Cory
Corns
1.0 Snow "Ghost"
1.1 Milkphase "Big Guy and Little Girl"
1.1 Anerythiristic "Gray Beard and Shadow"
0.2 Okeetee "Copper and Anna"
1.1 Bloodreds het Pewter
0.1 Crimson "Minnie"
1.0 Sunglow "Sunny"
Kings
1.0 California "Zeb"
1.0 Florida "Freak"
Milks
1.1 Pueblan
Lots of mice and rats

This has been quite an entertaining thread!

We do seem to be confusing innate disposition and the adaptability factor with intelligence, however. Yes, we all like to think our snakes are the smartest... And I am no different. (With the exception of my male redsided, which I think may actually BE retarded! LOL) My first experiences with snakes were with wc racers. They were both captivating and challenging. And, forever stretching the boundaries of creativity for coming up with 'less costly' handling methods. Some people enjoy the quirks and challenges that these snakes present... others do not. I thoroughly enjoyed the racers. That said, I enjoy my corn much less painfully!!

What funny timing- I'm in Southern Florida on vacation- Gulf coast just North of the Everglades- my first day down here I came out the side door and something slender, black and FAST took off- I managed to grab a handful near the back end and CHOMP... and CHOMP and CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP...I had a dozen bites by the time I got the 30" of Southern black racer under control- some even drew blood, the bas@#$! really liked to grab and tear...pretty snake though, dark charcoal gray with some blue sheen.

I put it in container with a water dish in the dark overnight and came back next day and reached in and it bit everything it could reach as often as it could reach it...continued to strike at the walls of it's container even after I left it alone...

The third day...it still bit anything and everything it could, my hands, my watch, itself, it was nutso aggressive even though it was a small snake, never seen anything not even rest between trying to strike, just continually try to fasten onto anything...I made a funny video of it "and here is an example of the friendly (OUCH) local (OUCH) animals..." and released it so it could go back to chomping anoles instead of me...

I'll post pics of it biting in a couple of days when I get home...

Tomorrow I'm going to go visit an area corn snake dealer and see about getting more corn snakes that are intelligent and alert and interactive and have a lot of pleasant personality as snakes go.

I'm not dissing the racer- cool, beautiful snake with a very, very focussed mentality, but not suitable as a keeper for it's welfare or mine.

The memories that brings back!!

I 'inherited' my racers... Which basically translates to: no one else was crazy enough to take them!

That was many years ago though. More recently, during my quest for the "perfect corn," I found that questioning an individual's disposition always seemed to produce a "DUHH" reaction... (Perhaps I should have clarified?? LOL)

I will always admire them for the unique individuals that they are, however, I prefer to admire them in a fleeting glimpse, a brief meeting in the wild. xD

Here's the racer in question, very pretty snake, very graceful.

Here it's practicing it's favorite sport- you can see it has discovered the soft part of my hand for multiple bites... I thought if I only restrained it loosely it would calm down...nope, no dice, never calmed down one bit in three days... it was actaully hard to get a good picture of it NOT biting, LOL...

First of all I would like to say, If anything, racers would be psychtzophrantics (sp?) not lawyers, and corn snakes would be Bill Clinton, (sits around most of the time and waits to be studded ) Anyway, you can't really imply that a snake or any other kind of reptile/fish/bird (accept maybe parrots) has any kind of measureable inteligence... the ONLY thing they do is try to maintain basic life functions (eat,sleep,drink,hybernate,breed) The only way you could possibly even concider measuring intelligence is deciding which species is best adept to meating all of these requirements.... and th answer to this is that they are all perfect at meeting these in their own way otherwise the species would be extinct... any thoughts?
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Road Hog"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches" (Didn't name her!)

Well actually, I would argue that there are plenty of successful life forms that have no brains at all. Also we are talking about a human like intellect, which would be measure by an animals ability to reason and interact with others. When a racer does something stupid like bite it's own tail, it demonstrates reasoning, flawed though it maybe, while a cornsnake heading for the warmest darkest spot, is desplaying instinctive behavor. That I guess is my main reasoning for thinking that they are smarter. Cornsnakes may be more adaptable to captivity, but perhaps that just means they have no instinct to tell them to react to it. Perhaps racers have that instinct, or perhaps they can reason it for themselves. Until we come up with a serpent IQ test I guess we will have to leave it to speculation.

I have to disagree..... the snake biting it's tail is not reasoning, it is instinct.... if the snake did NOT bite it's tail after it smelled food then that would be reasoning because it can mentally establish that even though it smells like food, it is not!
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Road Hog"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches" (Didn't name her!)

I have to assume that the snake figured out that it was his tail and did not swallow himself and die from digesting his own hind portions.

Actually.... NO the snake didn't figure it out... we waited 5 minutes so we would't stress him out by peeling him off himself. After 5 minutes of attacking himself we put him under the faucet and peeled himself off his own arse!
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Road Hog"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches" (Didn't name her!)

Actually, I have no issues with racers, don't think they make a good pet snake mostly because of the space they need to roam, most keepers will not provide the animals with that kind of room. Even a 55 gallon tank is going to be too small for a racer and he/she will spend most of it's time striking the glass or trying to jet away as someone enters the room.
They are just too jittery for my taste, but my questions to you is, what true level of stupidity would someone need to come to a forum about corn snakes and amke a post about how racers are better and corn snakes are retarted LOL. That is not much briter then going into a pool hall in Harlum with a t-shirt say that you do not like "colored" people.
It is just looking for a fight and trying to goat people into one
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Jim Hopkins "Hoppy"
Hopkins Holesale Herps
Hopfam1@aol.com