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I AM AWARE THE SIZE OF THIS POST, HOWEVER PLEASE BEAR WITH ME. I WOULD BENEFIT FROM ANY COMMENTS FROM MORE ADVANCED HERP OWNERS ASWELL AS THE NEW MORE NOVICE ONES. APARENTLY I POSTED THIS IN THE WRONG FORUM BEFORE...

Im setting up a vivarium complete with more than several reptile species. I have a 260 gal. mesh Exo Terra Flexarium that I picked up last week. I hope to have it complete with plants and such by the mid of august.

I know that many people reading this will start thinking "Mixing Reptiles? Oh No's!" but I have been assured that if done properly with the correct research and set up that it is entirely possible to provid several species a happy habitat together.

I started with an article in the August 2005 Issue of REPTILES (The one with the Dwarf Monitor on the front). The article was called "The living Vivarium, on page 76, written by Rex Lee Searcey. The author answered the question;

"I'm trying to make my own community vivarium, but when I mention this to most herpers, both novice and expert, they cringe and warn against it. Why? What other herps would be OK with reed Frogs?"

From reading the article and its explanations of different pathogen types and diseases, it concluded with some simple rules and a few examples of what go pretty well with most other reptiles of the same terranium type.

Reed frogs, most dart frogs, many Day Geckos, rainbow tree lizards, rough green tree snakes and Dwarf Stump-Tailed Chameleons make excelent tank mates in a community vivarium. Keep in mind I have a 260 Gallon Flexarium to fill.

It stands upright at 180 CM (72 inches) tall. The sides are 75 CM (30 inches) in width. I have a giant peice of tree (Looks like driftwood that is 2 meters (180 CM/ 72 inches) and is drying out and being treated right now. It will take another few weeks before it is ready to be used. Then I will start building the terrain around this one peice that is just incredibly shaped and formed. Having the tank sitting tall allows it to have variable temperatures and areas which each species will eventually take a liking to best.

I gave this a few days of thinking...

I decided I wanted to have 3 small reed and dart frogs (which need about 10 gallons for all of them), 2 day geckos (several will work great in a 20-25 gallon upright tank) and 3-4 stumped tailed or dwarf leaf chameleons (needing 8-10 gallons each).

All this equals about 75 gallons. The tree does take up a large space and so lets eliminate 50 gallons fo that. Leaving us with 125 gallons.

125 gallons to fill with a pair of larger chamelons maybe? Yes, I hope so.

I have been reasearching and there are two suitable species I think I have determind. Either Jackson's or Fisher's Chameleons need about 30-35 gallons for each adult. I could have a male and a female of one of those two types.

Making it come to about 190 gallons filled in a 260 gallon cage. I figure that would be perfect. Putting in some ficus or other plants of which I have not researched yet...

This subject I found is not well documented on the internet, but and so I need all your help on this.

Help me point out things that I have calculated wrong and tips.

Also, I HAVE NOT found breeders and stores in Southern Ontario and no one from the USA will ship without it being a import order of 2000 US dollars or more.

Please Help!

I am certainly no expert, but I think that with the exception of leaf chameleons, chameleons shouldnt be kept together, as they can be easily stressed. Also I wouldnt put the larger chameleons in there due to the fact that most are very fragile when you first get them....Also I believe that those two species you mentioned need a cooler environment than the other inhabitants. Plus, (not so sure on this one) but the larger chameleons oculd possibly eat the smaller cage mates. Maybe... So as I said before, I'm a novice keeper, so maybe the "experts" can give you better pointers.
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-Ryan

"Are you feeling stupid? I know I sure am."
-Homer Simpson

I'm no expert either, but I think if the enclosure is large enough to imitate the micro climes you will need for different species then give it a try. I'm sure it would work for species from the same general area. I've often thought of attempting to turn a whole room into a West African Exibit. With maybe ball and angolan pythons, some chameleons, fat tailed geckos, some agamas, maybe a hinge backed tortoise. Probably be too crowded though . Just somethin' I keep tossin' around in my head.

Quig

Quig, Ryo,
thanks for a timely answers.

The micro climate is what I was thinking. If I were to set the cage up vertically and put 4 heat/UV lamps at the top and then two down the sides, the species would be able to pick their favoured temperature.

It is still true that I must look farther into the climates of the Chameleons, because I seem to have focussed more on Size, Behavior, and Friendliness.

Will,

You're on the right track, however I would like to redirect your efforts slightly. The combinations you're talking about can work - eg. geckos along with tree frogs and/or ground dwelling frogs. However, it sounds like you're wanting to mix and match species from varying habitats and possibly even climates.

Instead, what I would look at is how to set up something representative of a certain biome, eg. rainforest, temperate dedicidous forest, etc. For example with a rainforest/tropical jungle you could have tree frogs, large species of anoles [or tree frogs with small adult size], geckos, and maybe something like arboreal alligator lizards - if we're talking about a South American rainforest.

I'm not sure of your space constraints, but you could lay the cage on it's side and have a woodland set up with skinks, toads, box turtles, and possibly even green snakes as you mentioned. You could even have salamanders probably. The main thing here is coming up with the compatible species. I would caution against housing animals from different geographic regions because of the problems inherent there.

Also, I'm a bit of a purist as well and tend to balk at the idea of an African chameleon housed with a South American frog and a North American snake. Of course, you're major limitations are going to be the available stock of animals you have to choose from locally, unless you can find some Canadian breeders/importers to deal with.

The reason you can't get a shipment from the U.S. for under $2000 is that there is an ENORMOUS amount of headache-inducing paperwork to ship anything living from the U.S. into Canada or vice-versa. Our zoo recently shipped a Mexican Beaded Lizard to a zoo in Canada and the tranasction took nearly a year and a half! Also, you're interested in species that are for the most part, low-dollar species and so not even worth it to a U.S. breeder to try to ship because they're simply not valuable enough.

Once you decide on species, you're going to have to face the unique challenges of housing animals in an all-screen enclosure. I have two 260 gallon Reptarium cages which from the sounds of it are probably the same exact thing as your Exoterra cages [they may even be produced by Apogee - the makers of the Reptarium or Apogee may have been bought out by Hagen - makers of Exoterra stuff]. They present many challenges in their usage.

First and foremost is temperature and humidity control. Fortunately I've been using mine to house a couple of adult Taiwan Beauty Snakes in my un-airconditioned apartment. These cages work pretty well for this particular species of snake, but would not work well for many other species. For the most part, the snakes are exposed to humidity and ambient temperatures throughout the summer of a comparable level to their native range, while in the winter [drier months] I supplement humidity by spraying with an automated misting system.

Of course heating can be of issue too, especially if you house the cage in a room that is heated more to human comfort levels. Depending on what species and type of biome you set up, the average comfort level of 72-78 F may not be suitable for the cage inhabitants. So, either the cage will need to be in a separate room heated with a supplemental heater to keep it warmer than the rest of the dwelling, or you may need to insulate the sides of the enclosure to help hold heat in.

Another thing to consider is whether the animals will need supplemental UV exposure. If that's the case then you'll need to figure out a way to install the lighting inside the enclosure because the tight weave of the mesh will not allow UV to penetrate through to the animals. So, lighting inside the cage creates it's own problems with mounting and covering the bulbs to prevent animals coming in contact.

I'm sure there's plenty I'm forgetting, but this will at least give you something to chew on. Feel free to post back here with more questions or email me directly.
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Matt Campbell
25 years herp keeping experience
Full-time zookeeper
Personal collection - 21 snakes (9 genera), 20 lizards (4 genera), 6 chelonians (2 genera)

Thanks so much for your help Matt.

I have decided to redirect me efforts here.

Thanks.