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I got a pair of F1 BHB axanthic X Sulphur Lavender Brooksi from Rainer last winter... the male is Lavender the female is "normal" (very dark)... but today the male is the focus of this post... his color is freak'n amazing... all his color hasn't even come out as yet. here he is compared to 2 different Rick/Osborne line lavender.

F1 Male

Rick/Osborne line lavender female

Left: Rick/Osborne line lavender Right:F1 BHB axanthic X Sulphur Lavender

Here is is next to my adult male (the adult has a peach orange coloration)

i'm sure the F2 BHB axanthic X Sulphur Lavender will produce some killer animals

Thanx for looking

~ZF

Nice Snakes ZF. One thing thougn and thats you are using the terms F2 wrong. A F1 is the first generation out of the wild while an F2 would be the F1's offspring and so forth.

Keith

>>I got a pair of F1 BHB axanthic X Sulphur Lavender Brooksi from Rainer last winter... the male is Lavender the female is "normal" (very dark)... but today the male is the focus of this post... his color is freak'n amazing... all his color hasn't even come out as yet. here he is compared to 2 different Rick/Osborne line lavender.
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>>F1 Male
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>>Rick/Osborne line lavender female
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>>Left: Rick/Osborne line lavender Right:F1 BHB axanthic X Sulphur Lavender
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>>Here is is next to my adult male (the adult has a peach orange coloration)
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>>i'm sure the F2 BHB axanthic X Sulphur Lavender will produce some killer animals
>>
>>Thanx for looking
>>
>>~ZF
>>
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Thanx Keith... but i think u misunderstood something... i wasn't refering to the F1 and the orange female's offspring as F2's... i was refering to breeding the F1 (BHB X Sulfur lavender) male to his "normal" 2x het female sibling which looks very very differnt, to produce F2's... unless that doesn't seem right as well?

here she is:

~ZF

The only way your snakes can be F1's is if they were hatched from wild collected animals. F1 means first generation from the wild and f2 means second generation from the wild and so forth.

Keith

>>Thanx Keith... but i think u misunderstood something... i wasn't refering to the F1 and the orange female's offspring as F2's... i was refering to breeding the F1 (BHB X Sulfur lavender) male to his "normal" 2x het female sibling which looks very very differnt, to produce F2's... unless that doesn't seem right as well?
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>>here she is:
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>>
>>
>>~ZF
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Ok... I may not know anything about this but... when Hybrids are bred the first generation are referred to as F1's... 2nd generation as F2... 3rd... 4th... etc.

so what you're saying is I can't use the F1,F2,F3, terminology... when referring to same subspecies, captive bred animals? ... if not then what should they be called/referred to/ labeled

***I'm not trying to be funny... I'm seriously curious***

~ZF

i agree w/Zenny the F1.....so on, can be used in morphe and hybrid generations .
Though i used to believe it was for wild stock gereations. in the Cichlid trade hybrids are a no-no.so it only used in wild degereration counter.Chris

Well then I can call my Eastern Kings Anerythristic because they have no red. It wouldnt be right and it would be confusing so I dont. If you want to refer to generations other than from wildcaughts then you need to use something thats not in use for something else. If ZF started selling f2 Albino Florida Kings then that would be false advertising cause they aint 2nd generation from the WILD.Lets say someone truly had f2 albino Florida Kings and they would be expensive but ZF is selling his F2 Albino Florida's for a fraction of the cost. This would hurt the other guy and be a lie on top of it as they arent true f2's. To keep using something in a wrong way helps spread misinformation and keeps others ignorant as to what something truly is and its not right.

Keith
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something like a F30. Those muattions have been around for awhile.
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~ZF

Say I bred an male albino FL king to a female I caught, bred their offspring together, and produced albinos. Wouldn't those be F2s?

Naa..they'd be f2.5 man. Jeez.
:Mark

I believe it only takes one wild animals bred to whatever to make F1's so yeah I guess.
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adding wild blood doesnt always work because your captive critters may already have an inheritant trait,which will be passed on........inbred! thats nature .Chris

color ,pattern morphes are not a normal trait so THESE critters may also house some internal deformaties as well.C

Zenny, this is off-topic, but a couple posts up you posted a pic of what looked to be jumbo mice (live)? If you feed those to your snakes, have you ever had a problem with them biting one of your snakes and injuring it?

Hey... yes those were feeder Mice... i breed fancy mice cuz i can't stand the site of those traditional feeder mice (white-red eyes)... now bacc to your question... i have a few snake that are very picky eaters (including 1.1 Brooksi siblings) i feed them prey killed mice... i have fed live before but i feed live to snakes with very quick reflexes (once-in-a-while... as a "treat"... mouse dies in mere seconds.

But i mostly feed frozen/thawed...

~ZF

what about eggs found in the wild? Breeding the sibs would garner????? Can I skip a step? Or if I breed one of the neonates 3 years down the road to a w.c. animal, what would that clutches designation be?
Todd Hughes

OMG... that speckled is Freak'n AMAZING!!!! WOW!!!... you've spaarked my interest in speckled kings!!!

~ZF

Thanks ZF, and you have some outrageous kings yourself! Man I'm such a newbie to breeding but jlassiter is right around the corner so I'm in good hands! LOL!
Todd Hughes

>>what about eggs found in the wild?

If you collected them and they hatched they are wildcaughts. They just happen to come in their own containers They would have to be wildcaughts because f1 means 1st generation out of the wild. These are still wild as they were produced naturally. If you collected a Gravid female I believe the same would apply.

>Breeding the sibs would garner?????

F1's

>Can I skip a step? Or if I breed one of the neonates 3 years down the road to a w.c. animal, what would that clutches designation be?

F1's. If one animal is wild collected then the offspring would I believe be f1's

Keith
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Thanks Keith! This is the beginning of my first project and my MBK's will come along next year as well. I guess it's back to the field for that w.c. male splesert king! LOL! She really is a looker, but I really like the one posted a few days ago by matt I believe. Wow!
Todd Hughes

Every time I look at that pic of the Speck/Desert my thumb hurts.......LOL
And who took that nice hatching pic...good shot....LOL
Breeding these babies will produce F1s from the wild.
If you breed one to an albino you will produce F1s that are het for albino...but I know you won't do that, eh?
F1, F2, F3 and so on are just generation markers and not solely used for wild collected snakes or their offspring.
John Lassiter

c'mon John saying that a wild by what ever is an F-1 is not right according to wild stock... we need a morphe /hybrib numerical system maybe hm/ or mh/# generation

I was not meaning F1 from the wild.
Just an F1 for a certain project.....like a hybrid or morph project.
I just meant the F1, F2, etc....is not solely used for wildcaught animal generations.
I would never call a wildcaught X a captive bred pairings' offsprings F1 from the wild. Just plain ole first generation hets for certain look/morph.
John Lassiter

what is the proper terminology for lets say king x corn then breed sibs from this project , the hybrid folks would probably use the F system.
this can become confuseing like Keith said if the F generations should be counted from wild stock only.
like i said(IMHO) adding wild blood to an existing strain that has faults will only degenerate the introduced so F should not be used.
there must be a code for morphes / hybrids etc.......

Au contrere, John. WHEN I find an albino (just a matter of time) we will begin the strange process of morphs with a true w.c. line! But will keep enough of the wild phenotype going to satisfy the demand for awesome looking deckled kings! I will only take one more male from that area and the albino because I know they are there but are fossorial and difficult to find. And of course, credit to where it is due, that hatching shot is courtesy of John Lassiter.
Todd Hughes

I bred the sulfur to an unrelated axanthic line that was het for lavender. The clutch also produced snows because all the sulfur lines aree het axanthic. When the lav's came out I thought they looked very average compared to the sulfur line. By looking at the neonates I did not think they would develope any of the sulfur yellows and reds. I was wrong. I just hatched out another clutch but only got two lavenders. The rest are axanthics, normals and snows. Now I wish I had produced more. I did not get any sulfur lavenders this year because the female got eggbound (she still is as big as a sausage)and I could have bred the axanthic to the sulfur line for a double clutch buit I didn't. Oh well. Next year.

2005 LAVENDER (BHB axanthic het for lav x sulfur lav het for axanthic)

2005 SNOW (BHB axanthic het for lav x sulfur lav het for axanthic)

Nice lavender! I got this beauty from Casey Lazik. She is also het for snow.

-Paul Stojek

I saw that snake a lil While back... and i gotta say that's one of the best lavender albinos i've ever see... i can't wait to see the offspring... what do u plan on breeding her to?

~ZF

I plan on breeding her to her brother. He looks just like her but doesn't have as much red on his back.

Thanks.

-Paul

WOW! I'm wearing my sunglasses indoors from now on! That's a killer!
Todd Hughes

Thanks.

-Paul

ive got some HET Lavs from Tim Ricks that show exceptional red similar to yours and a Male sulfer lav from Rainer they will be married in "07" Git R Dun.mayb" 06" size 'will determine.Could be keepers.C

Nice!

-Paul