Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Yeah, I was in a local pet store when I saw them. A male and a female Jackson's, about 3-4 inches snout to vent each, in a tank with no lighting, very few things to climb on, and a water bowl. I have seen this scenario many times before, but for some reason this particular one broke my heart. I have a decent amount of knowledge on cham care in general ( I keep a veiled), but I've never kept Jacksonii before. They were both badly dehydrated and had their eyes closed until they were disturbed. After complaining to and arguing with some employees, I decided I would give it my best shot to rehab them. I took a really big gamble and put them on my credit card.

Luckily, I have several reptariums, so intially I put them in a 38g ( if figured a smaller one would be better for rehab purposes) with a ficus and a pothos, reptisun 8.0, and a basking site at around 85 degrees. Ambient temp is 73-77. I need to get that lower, I think. I also think my frequent mistings and the plants will keep the humidity adequate, but I'll have to keep an eye on that as well. I know that montane species have high water requirements, and high humidity/cool temp requirements, too.

Anyway, I misted them for literally and hour or more and they scrambled to get every drop they could. I looked like they were actually sucking on the wet leaves. They also cleaned their eyes out thoroughly. It was really sad. I did the same the next morning, not for as long, but with similar responses. I then got them to eat several wild eyed reptile formula gutloaded, calcium dusted crickets. I was also able to collect fecal samples from them both, and I took them to the vet two days ago.

The vet said he thought the female looked good considering her previous conditions and that he saw a full recovery in her if my husbandry is right. The male needs more attention. He was obviously dehyrated, so the vet gave him a fluid shot that should help hydrate him. He also took some blood to run various tests, namely white blood cell count and to check on the kidneys. The vet called me later on that night with the test results. Good news was their fecal exams all came back clean. The bad news was that the male's white blood cell count was elevated, meaning he is sick. He recommended anitbiotic that I need to inject into alternating from legs above the elbow every third day. I also requested some liquid calcium in case they stopped eating dusted prey.

After the vet appointment ,I moved them into seperate enclosures and double checked all my husbandry requirements. The male stayed in the 38g reptarium (but was moved to a cooler area of the house) and the female is in a 100g reptarium. I have not seen either eat yet, though, since they moved. I'm hoping it's a matter of settling in first before they eat.

Yesterday I put them both in the shower on a ficus for about 20 minutes-30 minutes to better hydrate them (I highly recommend doing this to all chams by the way). They didnt seems to mind it too much, although they both closed their eyes for nearly the whole time. They did get planty to drink, thankfully. The male still is dehydrated, though. So on top of the frequent misting and dripper, how often should I try showering him?

Then I picked up the male's medication. I came home and injected the anitbiotics into his arm. No problem. He didnt put up much a fight, but I didnt expect him to. I got some calium drops into him this morning while he was drinking.

The female is basking and occasionally climbing the sides, ( hopefully, it's more of an "exploring new surroundings" thing than inadequate husbandry.) and drinking from the dripper. No eating yet, though. And the male is sleeping. He's had a rough few days.

They do actually look a bit better. Their eyes are not nearly as sunken in as they were, they are much more active and despite not eating much, they have a "fuller" look to them. The male, though, will close his eyes for extended periods at times. That has me concerned.

So that's where we stand now. I feel pretty confident I can save them, but I'd feel worlds better if I could get them to eat. They do look far better than they did a few days ago.

Aside from being concerned about their health, I'm concerned I may have made a mistake even trying to help them. I am hopeful I can help them, but i don't think I did the species in general any favors. I mean, I know that regardless of the circumstances of the sale, the pet store owners will look at it as just that...a sale. They'll think there is a demand for these animals and order more chams to be cared for in the same pathetic manner. Maybe when I get them back to health, I'll try to breed them to help out the captive population and to compensate for the lose of any other chams that this pet store aquires.

Anyway, any pointers, comments, or advice are very much welcomed and appreciated. Thanks.

PS-Darn it! Those reptariums were supposed to be for a panther!

Congrats on your rescue. Sounds like you're doing an excellent job with them.
I agree; it's a horrible fact of life, but careless pet shop owners will continue to offer chameleons as pets and will continue to keep them in less than optimum conditions as long as there is a profit or 'demand' for them.
Speak to the pet shop owner. Speak to the humane society. Speak to the ASPCA. Threaten action against the owner. Demand that your concerns be addressed before they offer another chameleon for sale. Those chameleons have no voice, so yours will have to do. Demand that your voice be heard!
Despite my recent tragedy, I remain a strong proponent of good ole natural sunlight. My jacksons FLOURISHED in San Diego, where I kept them outside year-round amongst my bonsai trees. There they received plenty of sunlight and plenty of humidity.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi@yahoo.com

It sounds like you are on the right track with them. Keep up with the little male...some take more time to come around than others. I had a female jax who was so far gone she lay limp in my hand on the drive home. I gave showers, but also every time I went in to check on her I gave a spray of warm water so she could lick it off her face, the leaves and perches right in front of her nose. I also gave her Pedialyte by dropper every time she started swallowing. Once she was not so desperately thirsty I gave plain water. Give water until the cham tips it's head up straight and turns away from the drip. Chams have small stomachs and can aspirate water if you give too much. As for eating, if you can get his mouth open you can try giving him a waxworm or a small crix so he gets some calories too. Dip the insect in a mix of Pedialyte a bit of calcium and vitamin dust.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Vic, I was really sorry to hear about your loss. I am an advocate of outdoor encosures, too. I keep my female veiled outside and she seems to have really benefitted from it. However, I am concerned about putting the new ones outsude as we are experiencing a heat wave, (nothing like you guys deal with) and I live in a condo where there is only direct sunlight at the hottest part of the day, like 95 degrees. The veiled likes it, but too hot for jacksonii. in my opinion.

I also certainly should speak to someone in a postion of authority about the conditions in some of these pet stores. Where are the standards? It's flat out cruel.

I also spray them down about everytime i check on them. Today, though, the female opened her mouth and hissed at me, and it looked like she had either reguritated some water or had some mucus build up. Any thoughts on that? If it's mucus, I may need to take her back to the vet to see of she needs any antibiotics too. I'll have to keep an eye on that. Any other input is greatly appreciated. I'll keep y'all updated.

Josh

As for pet shop "standards" for care and housing, there are none that would be specific enough to help chams. Shops might be inspected for sanitary conditions as it applies to city ordinances and human health, but I don't think there is much (enforceable anyway) for animal welfare. Even if there is, it is probably voluntary. The frustrating thing is, cham care info is readily available online, but it's up to the business owner/staff to bother reading it.

If a cham has just eaten or is slightly dehydrated they will have more mucous and saliva in the mouth. When you see this cham drink do strings of clear saliva "drool" down from her chin? This is often a good sign that she's dehydrated. I had a rescue melleri who developed long drippy strings every time it drank. I suspect it had been so dehydrated for so long it had some kidney damage and was simply unable to metabolise the water fast enough.

My heart goes out to the pair from here. I think you have done a wonderful job, sounds like your off to a good start. I would recommend offering a shallow dish of water for the male to bask in, I've seen my female lay in a dish for hours despite mistings. Also you may consider leaving them together, after an extended stay together it may cause them more stress to be apart and re-introduced later (that is assuming you plan on keeping them together in the future). Sounds like you are doing a very good job, I look forward to hearing how you make out.

Thanks for the kind words. I actually do have a few collection dishes in their enclosures to collect water from the dripper/mistings. It is well with in reach of the male and big enough for him to get into if he wanted to use it, but it is was my understanding that they dont recognize still water. I've been putting them in the shower for 30 minutes every otherday, as per some advice from some breeder I've spoken to. It seems to be really helping to hydrate them and prompted them to begin shedding.

The male is not nearly as healthy at the moment as the female, so I would be too concerned about him further spreding any illness to her if they were in the same enclosure. Plus, I don plan on keeping them housed together in the future, unless I decide to breed them. Assuming I can get them through all this. that's a long way off, though. First, need to get them healthy and eating regularly.

You make a very good point about contagions. I've been told that chameleons dont recognize still water as a drinking source but I have watched my chameleons enjoy a bath. I just wanted to throw it in the pot as a suggestion. I hope these guys pull through, the angels smiled on them when you walked in the pet store! Have you looked into authorities to deal with the pet store??? I am very interested to see if there is anything done. Best wishes to you and yours.

I finally got them to eat! I had them in the shower yesterday, and afterwards I put free range crickets, mealworms and waxworms in their cages. The female ate about 3-4 large crickets and the male ate about 4 mealworms, 3 crickets and some waxworms. I was so stoked! Today they drank alot during their misting. The male is looking better, more active and basking. I have to give him his shot today, but I'm going to try and feed him again first. No, I havent contacted anyone about the pet store yet. I deefinately should, but I'm pretty busy with these two at the moment. Their recovery is what matters at this point. Thanks.