Reptile & Amphibian Forums

how do you do it? the tail> we caught 2 and they between a foot and a foot and a half, and they both have real long tails, does that mean they are both male? and what exact subspecies, they were found in south western california, just north of san diego. they were found at the base of mountains, in woody-granite rock area with lots of water. they were all swimming in water. they have pinkish orangish bellies, green with no specific patterns but mabe darker green blotches the whole body, no real strilpes or discernable spots. they all blend in. im thinking western aquatics? nick.
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re-edited
1.1 Western redback chuckwallas(philbert & unnamed)
5 green sunfish
Striped raphale catfish
Common Plecaustomouse
3 coyfish
0.1.1-sandiego gopher snakes
1.3-coturnix quail
0.1-cockatiel( R.I.P)ironic she was named casper...
1.1(fixed) cats-eddie/buzz
Where the heck would a cali. kingsnake run off to?!?!?!

without them eating each other? thanks, nick.
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re-edited
1.1 Western redback chuckwallas(philbert & unnamed)
5 green sunfish
Striped raphale catfish
Common Plecaustomouse
3 coyfish
0.1.1-sandiego gopher snakes
1.3-coturnix quail
0.1-cockatiel( R.I.P)ironic she was named casper...
1.1(fixed) cats-eddie/buzz
Where the heck would a cali. kingsnake run off to?!?!?!

They sound like Two-Striped Garters, Thamnophis hammondii. There are no recognized subspecies of this snake but the Baja population was previously listed as a subspecies. Please see my response to your post in the Small Terrestrial Snakes forum.

The Two-Striped Garter is fully protected in California and may not be collected or possessed. Breeding them would also be illegal. The other garter that may be found in your area is the California Red-Sided, a subspecies of the Common Garter T sirtalis. These are protected in all the counties of S California and may not be collected in your area either.
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Randy Hallman

I agree that they sound like two striped. www.californiaherps.com has excellent pictures of just about all the native species; it would be a good place to look for confirmation of ID. As Randy said, this species is protected so if they are indeed two-stripes, it would be best to release them asap. There is also a closure on common garters in Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Diego, and Ventura counties.

The Peterson field guide to Western Reptiles and Amphibians by Robert C. Stebbins is an excellent book. It follows me on every herping adventure, and should enable you to make identifications in the field, thereby, preventing the accidental collection of a protected species. You should also consult the California sport fishing regs http://www.fgc.ca.gov/2005/05freshfishregbook.pdf for closures on certain species / populations. Reptiles are listed on pages 21 & 22.

-Alice

I see a lot of your posts. Keep up the good work. Are you using the 3rd edition (2003)? It has a lot of updated information but he has also removed quite a few subspecies (see page 9 and 10) citing new paradigms in taxonomy and the need for intensive study. The Ringneck snake is such an example. The new edition lists no subspecies while the previous edition had eight. I think this is interesting when compared to desire for locality animals many collectors have, including myself. You might find it interesting and enjoyable as I have to obtain all three editions of the Stebbins field guide and cross reference the evolution of taxonomy and natural history etc. I started as a kid with the first edition and it has since been lost (it was wrecked from countless hours in the field) but was able obtain the older editions on e-bay. I also use the official taxonomic lists quite often. On a nostalgic note I also obtained from e-bay an identical set of reptile flash cards that I once owned in the 1960's. These had been given to me as a gift when I was a young boy and it was my first foray into herpetology. I remember memorizing every one of them. Their information is basic and redundant but their value to me now is of course significant.
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Randy Hallman

they were every where where i was hiking, geez. ive got the peterson field guide reps and phibs eastern/ central north america, and peterson field guide western reps/ phibs, third edition. thank you for the help, and if you really want to see them, ill try to post a pic soon. nick.
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re-edited
1.1 Western redback chuckwallas(philbert & unnamed)
5 green sunfish
Striped raphale catfish
Common Plecaustomouse
3 coyfish
0.1.1-sandiego gopher snakes
1.3-coturnix quail
0.1-cockatiel( R.I.P)ironic she was named casper...
1.1(fixed) cats-eddie/buzz
Where the heck would a cali. kingsnake run off to?!?!?!

I'd love to see pics! These guys tend to be common where they're found, but since they're closely tied to wetlands which have undergone dramatic reductions, there is less and less suitable habitat. Loss of habitat is the primary reson for their decline.

-Alice

I was talking with a herpetologist from Calif F&G awhile back and he said the several years of drought were also an issue influencing their status. It is assumed reproduction levels had dropped off because of this. Hopefully they will remain healthy in what habitat they have left. The Narrow-Headed Garter in Az and NM is also protected because of habitat limitations. I am currently trying to get involved with some research on T rufipunctatus, this species captures my greatest interest.
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Randy Hallman

I've got both the third and second edition Stebbins. I have noticed that a lot of the subspecies have been dropped which does force me to dig out my old edition occaisionally. I've also got an old reptile field guide by Stebbins I picked up from a used book store. If I recall correctly, it was from the California Natural History series. It only has California herps, but does contain some intersting additional info. I've also got the old audobon field guide (not the best reference, but it was my first field guide), and a few others.

-Alice

is one of those areas being quickly mauled over by the derned land developers. my cousins house used to be surrounded by fields, now hes int he middle of a large town. geez. the rain, however, has caused a great ammount of wetland to return to the field areas, and an immense increse has been noted in the number og herps this season. ill try to post pics tonight, nick.
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re-edited
1.1 Western redback chuckwallas(philbert & unnamed)
5 green sunfish
Striped raphale catfish
Common Plecaustomouse
3 coyfish
0.1.1-sandiego gopher snakes
1.3-coturnix quail
0.1-cockatiel( R.I.P)ironic she was named casper...
1.1(fixed) cats-eddie/buzz
Where the heck would a cali. kingsnake run off to?!?!?!