Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I recently aquired my tiger retic and have had her about a month now. She's only taken 4 small mice in 5 weeks. I know that it's enough to sustain her but I've had retics in the past and they were voracious feeders taking anything they could. This girl turns her nose up at everything. I've went through about 20 frozen mice leaving them overnight to find them sitting in the same spot all nastified. So I pitch em and try it again. She'll only take them live which I don't want to do. I absolutly hate feeding my snakes live mice. I've seen mice tear the heck out of snakes before so I don't like leaving them in the enclosure with her overnight. She's still small enough to take a big injury from a mouse if they felt like it(3' exactly now). So should I try differen't prey items? I think maybe she's a little too cold also. She's not as active as most retics also but doesn't seem to have any resperatory or other issues. Our house is heavily air conditioned though. I had her in a ten gallon until a few days ago and had a towl on top to insulate then I moved her to her new enclosure I just built. I hope that it'll keep the heat better since it's made of wood and doesnt have the whole top ventilated. It's about 4' x 1.5' x1.5 with a side hinged front and a screened hole on top for lighting. I'm probably just over thinking this and she's just fine. She's always warm when I pull her out. I just love my little girl and I want her to be as happy as possible.

Okay enough blabing I guess. Does anyone have any ideas on what I should try? Would an improper temperature problem result in low apetite? I've some pictures of her enclosure I'll post to give perspective on what I can do to make it more comfortable. For the time being while she's still small I'd like to give her an atmosphere at which she can "play" and nose around. I don't want her to be just another captive retic sitting in a cage 24/7 living a life of bordom. Then again the enclosure still has to be functional and easy to maintain. ahem...the end ;D

How are you heating the cage, and what are your basking spot & cool end temperatures?

Bill

Actually I'm not sure of the temperatures. In the past I've had success offering cool and hot places and allowing the animal to choose. I've a 75 watt bulb on top and a heating pad under the other end. Our ambient house temps im guessing are mid 60's which i know isn't great but the enclosue is somewhat closed right now so the bulb should keep the temps maybe 10 degrees higher. The only open spot is a 1 inch gap around the light. I thought I'd see how it went and then drill holes in the side if more airation is needed later.

The temperture inside your enclose can have a huge effect on a snakes eating habits. The fact that you don't know what the current temp is in the tank is a bit worrisome. You should definitely monitor this! Generally speaking, the basking temp in the tank should range 88-92 degrees and the ambient temp should be between 78-82. The temp in the tank should never go below 75 degrees, including night time temps.

I can understand your trepidation with feeding your girl live mice. Have you ever tried stunning the prey first? But even with stunning the prey, you should never leave it in a cage unmonitored with a snake. When I was feeding live prey to my snakes, I would basically give my snake 5 minutes to attack and kill. If they wouldn't do so within 5 minutes, I'd take the [bleep]er out.

I would first take care of the temp thing, then try stunned live prey, but I have a feeling that once you get the temp up, she might start taking frozen or PK.

Good luck.

Hey thanks for the input. In the back of my mind I knew the temps probably weren't correct. I just haven't had the time to get crackin on her enclosure. I spent 3 whole days designing and putting together her cage and now I have to find the appropriate wattage of light to give me the heat I want and probably find some other means of keeping the enclosure warm without the light. I have a heating pad but the material is about an inch thick so I dont thnik it'll transfer very well. I thought of putting her outside but that'd be too hot. Temps here are about 100 degrees in the day and i work 2nd shift. Can anyone perhaps give me a cost effective heat monitor. I'm not trying to have some crappy ass mainstream pet store disk that meastures heat ect. Then again I don't want some 200$ infared monitor either.

I'm sure she'll get back to her voracious ways soon enough. I have tried stunned animals without success.

Radio Shack sells simple thermometers with remote probes. That's an easy way to monitor the temperature at a glance -- just place the probe in the area you'd like to watch.

What is the new cage like?

Bill

That sounds good. I'll run to radio shack tomorrow.

The new cage is 4' x 1.5' x 1.5' by 1 inch think laminated particle board. Hole cut in the top for a light and a side hinged front door. Also added a shelf. I think I'm going to have a problem providing heat and darkness at the same time. What will radiate through 1inch particle board. Maybe a ceramic bulb but that would get real hot and be a fire hazard i think.

Try rat pups!! Everything likes rat pups!!
TW

be sure to place ALL of the heat (lights, heat pads, whatever) on the SAME SIDE of the cage so that one end will be considerably warmer than the other. By concentrating all of it on one side, the snake will have a better choice of warm and cool areas than if you "dilute" the heat by having some on each end.

the light doesnt create a lot of heat it pretty much just raises the air temperature for me. I'm still not sure about heating from beneath 1 inch particle board.

try using a diff light for basking area maybe u need something that has a focused beam thats what i have and it works well i use Zoo Med basking bulbs
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1 Burmese python
1 savu python
1 blood python
2 Uromastyx mali, Nigerian
2 savannah monitors
some other gems i will leave out..

Those are all good reasons for feeding problems, however I produce alot of retics every year and some can just be jerks and be picky for a while. Just make sure you keep water in there cause baby retics can dehydrate quickly. In my experience the babies that are "jerks" and picky eaters eventually get the agressive feeding response they are known for.

Prairie State Exotics

Okay, the air temps are up and probably sufficiant. Now the problem I have is heating at night. Her enclosure is made of 1" thick particle board so most things under the cage wont transfer enough heat through the bottom of the cage. So I'm not sure what to try. I thought maybe a ceramic heating bulb but those get real hot and i dont want to set anything on fire being that the cage is wood. Right now I have a "clamp light" with a 75 watt bulb on the top. I have an 8 inch circle cut out with aluminum screen covering it. I have about an inch gap between the light and the wood so it doesnt get hot so maybe a ceramic heater would work. I thought also I could maybe cut a hole in the side and slide a heating pad inbetween the sheets of wood but that could be hazardous also. What do you think?

If you use a ceramic heat emitter (CHE), make sure you use a porcelain bulb socket -- a fixture designed for high-heat, high-watt bulbs. Since the cage is 4 x 1.5 x 1.5 feet and in a cool room so you're going to need to throw some decent heat into it. A CHE is a good option, and if need be you can use a plug-in lamp dimmer switch from Home Depot to control the output of the CHE. Also, a CHE doesn't give off light so it's great for both day and night use. You're going to need day and night heat.

As long as you get the proper dome-reflector fixture for the CHE there shouldn't be any fire hazard at all. Again, just make sure the fixture is designed for high-heat, high-watt bulbs.

Bill

http://www.vin.com/WebLink.plx?URL=http://www.herpsupplies.com

This place has dome reflector fixtures that would work with CHEs. Call them and tell them what you're doing and they should be able to let you know what you need.

Bill

You bring up a good point. The dome im using right now has a plastic socket on it and is only rated for 75 watts or less. I'll try a red bulb and if that doesn't give me the temps i want(probably not with a 4' cage) then i'll move over to the CHE. Thanks for all the ideas guys. I really appreciate it. I'll buy you all a beer sometime ;]

How about using a red/purple/blue colored bulb for night heat? that way you don't have to worry about the wood burning (I had that happen once with a CHE!). The 'party' bulbs I'm talking about usualy are only available in 25watts but I beleive home depot (or other home improvement stores) sell the 50 watt colored bulbs. (also pick up a $10 thermometer, it will really help you figure out which wattages work best) hope that helps a bit, good luck!

That's not a bad idea, I'll try that too. I have actually used those in the past but it slipped my mind. I got mine from walmart and i think they were 45 or 60 watt. Anywho, thanks for the idea! ;D

I know you mentioned you did'nt want to soend a ton of money, but your best bet to produce a temp gradient is a Radiant heat panel.
I use the Pro Products panel with my burms in large cages, and it's pretty amazing to watch them move back and forth through the gradient, throughout the course of the day.
Used with a good thermostat, you cant produce better ambient temps. And you can move it from cage to cage as your snake grows.
Also, the temps the produce should'nt be hot enough to be a major fire hazard, as the thermostat turns them on and off.
The highest surface temps I ever recorded, directly on the panel was about 130* on a I believe mine are around 110 watts.
Also, dont guess at your temps. For less than $30 you can buy
a small, but accurate temp gun. Check Pro Exotics website.

Sweet, I just emailed them. I hope they're not too expensive. If i can get one that's maybe 1.5 x 1 ft that'd be perfect. Though I only have about 100 bucks to spare this week. ;[

Radiant heat panels are great. That's all I've been using for over 10 years, and I used them in cages from 24 x 12 x 12 up to 67 x 30 x 18. The panel mounts to the inside top of the cage and creates a nice temperature gradient.

All my cages are in a basement where it can be 67 or so in the winter and up to 78 in summer. So I use thermostats to control most of them, and a couple of lamp dimmers for the rest.

RHPs not only give a great basking area, they also heat the cage air == very important for getting the proper cool end temperatures if the cages are in cool rooms.

RHPs are certainly not cheap, but I have some that have been in use for over 10 years and are still working fine.

If you decide to get an RHP and you decide to get it from Pro Products, be sure to call them first and tell them exactly what you're doing so they can tell you what size you need. Don't guess.

Bill

I'm guessing one thats 12 x 24 would be maybe 150 bucks...i cant spare that this week but next week i can grab one.

I tried again lastnight to feed her a fresh thawed mouse...nice and warm..and she was warm also. She nosed around it and sniffed it....then did nothing...she acted more interested than usual but still a no go. I'm going to pick her up a few more live mice and try again tomorrow...all in all she's doing much better in the new enclosure and the temps are up dramatically. when i open the cage i feel warm air. She's still getting larger even if she's only taken 4 mice she's grown about an inch and seems to have good weight...even some side creases ;p

okies...thanks guys