Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In a couple of weeks, a new friend of mine will be showing me the ropes when it comes to keeping venomous snakes. After a few weeks of learning, the plan is to buy a death adder.

But - that isn't rock solid yet. My options include black snakes, collett's snakes, death adders, etc - virtually anything except taipans, tiger snakes and brown snakes that is available in Australia.

I have seeked the advice of four or five of the top herpers in Australia, and been told that an adder is a good option - but it's still a big step and all advice is appreciated.

I will be making my own enclosures - so any designs are appreciated (at the current time i'm thinking a 3Lx2Hx2W foot melamine top opening enclosure with two wooden framed glass doors on top. That way, a wall can be inserted between the doors, and the enclosure sectioned off for cleaning, etc.

So, first off - does anybody have any enclosure designs that make keeping venomous snakes safer/easier - that don't lead to any problems?

Secondly - what does everybody think about an adder as a first? Keep in mind that antivenin is widely available here in Victoria, Australia.

Thirdly - just general tips for keeping?? tricks to make it easier? comments?

Thanks for reading, and for any replies.

Cheers.
Aaron.

How much of a background do you have with snakes? Do you have a vet lined up that will treat a "hot"? What is your background with carpentry? How are you thinking about handling the transfer of the snake when the cage needs cleaning? There is no way that I would trust my cage building skills with a ball python let alone a "hot" but you might have more of a background in that than I do.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
1-1-0 Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-1-0 Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

Hi Aaron, Since you are in Australia and presumably have access to antivenom, I think a death adder is an OK choice. You just have to remember to never let your gaurd down. 99% of the time the hook fairly well and are docile (almost too docile). They are great eaters and generally don't present shedding problems or the kinds of things that would forced you to handle them. Just remember they are actually very agile and honestly can leap and strike their entire body length.

Good Luck

I actually disagree with the second post. I am all for building your own enclosure. The majority of cages on the market are simply not made for venomous. And most that are are designed for larger snakes. A small death adder in a vision cage would be a bad idea. I'm not a big fan of top opening cages, but a death adder is a species that it may not be such a bad idea. Just make sure you seal all of your corners and that there is no way for the snake to escape or find any awkward corners or crevices to squeeze in to.

-Will

I was only asking about his experience with building. I meant only that I would personaly not trust my own skills in building to cage. I apologize that it came across differently.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
1-1-0 Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-1-0 Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

I don't think that "a few weeks" is a long enough span of time for one to train and then get their first hot...especially one as lethal as Acanthophis...remember, AV is not a cure all, and fatalities and permanent injury can still occur even if swift medical intervention and AV is administered...don't rush into things, you have your whole life to keep hots, don't let your enthusiasm cut it short.

Compared to other aussie elapids though, death adders probably are the best bet.

Red-bellieds might be a better option. Death adders are easy to hook only by their good grace. If they don't want to be hooked, they are virtually unhookable and obviously can't be tailed. They are incredibly fast and can be quite unforgiving. RBBs are typically very mellow (except for the Cairns population) and easy to work with.

What state are you in? The licensing requirements usually require a bit more experience than just a few weeks.

Cheers
Bryan
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Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
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Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
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http://www.venomdoc.com

To all...
Carpentry skills adequate enough to make secure enclosure

The enclosure design will be reconsidered--- to be deep enough to make it difficult to get out of (not impossible, obviously), and long enough that a barrier can be inserted without actually moving the adder, so that the other side of the enclosure can be safely accessed.

I agree, a couple of weeks is too short. I didn't mean that literally (sorry). Although, after speaking to those who have kept all types of venomous snakes for many years, they seem to suggest that all that is required is decent common sense, an understanding and appreciation of the abilities of the snake, a knowledge of the risks involved, and of course, the relevent tools and skills. Whilst I don't wish to seem arrogant, or that i'm saying it's by any means a small step, or easy, from what I've been told so far, books aren't going to help that much, but, to the other extreem, thousands of hours is overdoing it. (apologies for the overly-long sentences and lack of full stops).

Bryan - I am in Victoria. I have considered RB Blacks, but they don't really appeal to me. My main problem with them is the fact that, whilst they usually stay at around 4.5 feet, give or take, sometimes they grow anywhere up to 7.5 feet (see, http://www.avru.unimelb.edu.au/avruweb/Blacks.htm#Red-bellied black snake - can't be bothered citing it according to MelbUni's style ). I would prefer a more toxic small snake than a less toxic large snake. I will certainly take your opinion into consideration (and discuss it further with others). Thanks for your advice (if you don't mind, could you send me your email at the_leprechaun87@hotmail.com).

THanks to everyone for your thoughts, comments - be sure to let me know what you think.

IMO...Having one of the most dangerously venomous snakes in the world as your first hot does not strike me as being too bright an idea.

The handling issues BGF mentioned above are worth noting. Granted the smaller size and usual good nature are pluses, but the consequences of a amatuer's accident are pretty serious.

I would seriously recommend much more training and the keeping of something less (of which there are several species to chose from-subject to availability) hot first.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Frank,

See post above regarding RBBs.

Thanks.
Aaron.

Arron, after reading thru Coggers and my other Australian books I find that there are a number of far less venomous snakes in Australia that would make for good beginner hots. if you do not have any good books on Australian Hots, by all means that is what you need to obtain first.

I have trained several people in the proper keeping of venomous snakes in my many years of keeping them. The best preparation IMO is to find a snake that is less venemous or has similar behavior and size to the species you desire to keep. This will allow safer testing of your facility and handling protocols.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

In Oz, red-bellieds are actually one of the most common first hots. They are placid and bites aren't likely to be lethal. However, they are similar in build to other elapids so its a good way to get a feel for how they move. I wouldn't recommend death adders as a first hot under any circumstance. They are very much an advanced snake.

Cheers
B
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Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.venomdoc.com