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I went to various areas in and around riverside county on tuesday evening, heres how the night went:

2 crotalus ruber
1 crotalus mitchelli
1 hypsiglena torquata deserticola (?) (desert nightsnake)
5 lampropeltis getulus californiae (2 dor)(cal king) np
1 rhinocheilus lecontei (dor) (longnose snake) np
1 phyllorhynchus decurtatus (leafnose snake) np
1 arizona elegans candida (dor) (glossy snake) np
2 coleonyx variegatus (banded geckos) np

the reason there is a question mark after the nightsnake is because I am in debate w/ a friend over the taxonomy of nightsnakes. If there is a nightsnake found at whitewater a deserticola? Also, does the subspecies klauberi still exist when speaking about the san diego nightsnake. I have now read that that subspecies is not being used anymore. Can anyone comment on this? rootsrok
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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

heres a pic of the mitch that was found

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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

Heres a pic of the nightsnake I found at whitewater

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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

pics of one of the rubers, this one was found at whitewater

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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

one of the many calkings

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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

here is a pic of what appeared to be a calking in the process of eating a longnose snake, and the longnose got its revenge! This is exactly how we found the snakes, soooooooo odd!

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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

....this is very odd & im not as convinced as you..predation was occuring [tho kings do in fact eat longnoses]. The king would have been balled & flattened...not stretched out. Why the rhino would cross alive the already dead carcass of the getulus is unlikely too; it would recoil at the first scent...

So...?? I think they were possibly placed by person(s) yet unknown..

Beers, RXR

like I said, anything is possible but if you look at eimons post, this was just somewhere where that would NEVER happen. Not a herp spot or anything, just the side of the freeway, barely in few. I have trouble beleiving someone slammed on their breaks going 90 on the freeway, just to play a joke? uh maybe, probably not, as i said, eimon or I did not move the snakes in anyway. however you look at it, its bizarre!
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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

The king looks to be slightly more....cured shall we say, the longnose looks like it is substantially fresher. Perhaps the longnose found his way there after the fact?

CHeers
B

You know, after looking at the pic yesterday, I was kind of thinking the same thing. But as to what Regal thought, no one would/could stop to reposition snakes along that stretch, so I don't know. If it wasn't so darn late, I don't think we would of even pulled over. It's rather damn strange in a few ways.

Eimon

Very interesting find. Without the benefit of seeing the setting, I don't find anything too implausible about the initial assessment. Unless hit very directly (and sometimes even then), it is amazing the contortions snakes can go through before subsequent strikings, and the final plastered shape is often not inidicative of the position when initially struck. True that a balled king would have less indirect strike areas exposed depending on how positioned and whether it had already killed its prey. Were they on the shoulder, edge or middle of the road?

when I first saw that pic I said to myself, no way, because I have a pic from earlier this year of the same situation, and, looks nothing like this pic at all. I'm at work right now and do not have access to my home computer so everyone will have to wait until later tonight to see it. It's a pic of a Cal King and a longnose, without question of what transpired before being crushed. In my opinion this pic here is a fake, not enough blood and guts.

wow, not enough blood and guts huh, I have found dors w absolutlr y no blood guts or splits in the skin, explain that. so in my opinion, maybe you havent found many dor's but it is certainly not odd for a snake to not be "splattered" by a car. I can guarantee you again that these snakes were not set up (atleast by the person I was with or I) and again, it is on the shoulder of a cut around a turn on a freeway, not a herp spot.
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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

every road I'm on is a herp spot, I'm always looking no matter where I am, especially if it has rock cuts on it, obviously you were looking. Second, I didn't mean to insinuate that you or anyone with you set it up, though I don't see that picture as being anything other than not natural. Thirdly, It could be possible that the wind of passing big rigs picked up the longnose from further up the road and it just happend to land as it was found (yeah right) so maybe it was natural. Lastly, I'm sure that you've seen many more DOR's than I have.

I have concluded that the King is a day old and an owl, startled by the rising crest of moonlight over the hills, dropped the fresher Rhino on the King so it could latter return and have it's choice of meals, buffet style. Or, unscrupulous herpers were being chased by F&G and threw the Longnose out the window (being 1 over the limit) onto the King to disguise it durring pursuit, but it bounced off the speed limit sign and perished from the incident.....LOL. I'm calling in CSI Baja to figure this one out. I'm starting to like these ideas better and better, it's a lot more fun! Ok- who can come up with the best explaination for the pic? Prizes galore for the winner......

Eimon

LMAO man, I wish I could come up with s..t like that, but hey, being the focker that I am, I'd just fock it up. Here is a find from earlier this year. Need to keep it about herps ya know.

I wonder if maybe the snakes were run over multiple times and/or were still alive for a short while, thus causing their final resting positions to be different than how they were when hit. Or maybe the kingsnake was trying to feed on the previously hit longnose and was then hit. They could have been run over again, causing the front half of the longnose to end up draped on top of the kingsnake. Who knows....

actually about 7 years ago when I was working as a biologist at a state park here in Central Florida, I found an adult coral snake "pealing" a roadkill juvinile off of the paved main park drive.

Bottom line: anyone trying to figure out what happened in the posted pick or question the validity of the pics' authors is pissin in the wind. To suppose that your pic above shows more validity makes you a real rm pecker.

Cheers from FL

Well, we are all entitled to our opinions, even you. Your right though, there is no telling how those snakes ended up the way they did, but hey, it looks hokey.

The name calling is uncalled for, your two cents would have been just fine. Fortunately, I have alligator skin derived from 11 hard weeks at PI. While it doesn't bother me, it says a lot about you.

If anything was set up or changed, it wasn't by us. I would have at least shoved the Rhino into the Cals mouth if I wanted to "make" a setting out of those two. A pile of snakes doesn't say too much as to what may have really happened. That would be one of the weakest fakes IMO. Now, quit being a Focker!...lol.

Eimon

Eimon, I can't help it, I'm a FOCKER, the pic doesn't look real. Wait till you see the pick I post this evening, RR has it right.

First you need to establish a time of death for each snake and then check to see if there are any bite marks and examine the teeth for traces of DNA.

....never tire of seeing wild ones...the c/b...& morphs...i wont go there... tho some are jewels...

lemme see here...1 good turn deserves...

you saw 5, 2 were dor, let's see the AOR's. This obviosly is a DOR.

I didnt photograph any of the kings as the area is just not the sort of place you stop to take pics (espicaially w/ cal kings), the kings were just a swoop with one hand, than basically toss them off the side of the road, far enough so they dont come back (atleast for a few minutes) but if you want some pics of a live king,

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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

Why didn't you post these in the first place.

both of these pics have been previously posted, these kings arent the one found in the riverside area, thus, I didnt want to mislead anyone by thinking they were by posting them w/ a riverside herp report. I hope thats OKAY!
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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

n/t

I theeen so.

....very...very... freeking nice..i spec(t) ....even Dr Spec. .... hiz-sef...mite agree....
Pity he (the Dr.).... cant see fit to post a whitey-spec....guess despite his eye for beauty...he's a racist!
Its gonna take forum outrage to shame him 2 share...

JG,
Are referring to the T.A. Specks?
Those wicked whities! K>S>

Hey Kenny, that post is borderline insubordination....lol. Uh, yeah......."the marbled ones".

...yes indeedy...arent those the sweetest specs of all

Hey can you get ahold of that guy who saw the migrating tiger sallies? I'd sure like to hear where he observed them...& see a jpg...

Beers /RxR

On my list of things to do next spring. K>>S

I'd be ostricized forever if I was the one to post photos or locale info on that subject. You know what they look like anyway. How many more photo do you need me to show you?

I like to be pretty low key on locale info these days. I guess I am just selfish about keeping some places as herper free as possible.

Now that so cal speck is a looker 4 sho. Looks like a 243 animal to me.

...Dr Spec....you have international-immunity...you dont hafta say from where....just let the snow fly.....Ill break their legs if they come after you
But thats it..i caint b beggn (about this topic anyway..) & Ive seen them....whhoooeeeee...good to-c you're outhere...RxR

...swing by the casa again and take a lookie in person. But no cameras.

...be kiddn call'n that dinosaur I brought...a camera!
I do have by last generation.... Olympus 2.1/10X optical....outta the shop now...
I guess I miss-t it...I thot that whitey I was drooling on... was a W/tanks or Maricopa beast....???

B-talkn....RxR

What a pretty little creature, but I favor southern bells like this myself.

Hi,
That was a neat looking speckled. They are my favorite rattlers to find. I found a DOR here in San Bernardino-(close to the bottom of hwy.18),it was pretty orange.The first I've seen this close to me.I've seen a couple off the 15 near corona. Well,again,nice pics of that one,I love the color on it.
jeff

PS-here is one from Landers I saw last year,the pic is pretty blurry, but the snake was very pretty.

Captive Bred Tri-colors

.

What you didnt see any Lyre snakes! Geez, you guys said they are all over the place dripping off the rock cuts and waving at you from the side of the road. I see the other stuff in my yard on the way to the mailbox. I dont know about this, you guys are driving right? LOL
Did Eimon call you.
Cheers
Brett

brett-
I tols ya, we were in "unexplored" territory. We figure lyres should be there but who knows, all we can say for sure is that there is rubers, mitchelli and cal kings, well see what else it produces in the future. Maybe tonights the lyre night! jon

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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

LOL, just teasing thats a good night by any stretch! That little speck was a pretty one too, I dont keep specs but finding one like that could change my attitude. I'll be looking forwards to speaking wiht you guys this weekend. Looks kind of cloudy over the Santa Rosa's today...
Cheers
Brett

About the Night Snake debate, check out Gary's website at CaliforniaHerps.com his listing is the most accurate.
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