Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi

Many people say not to do community tanks because of desease or other things. I have done a comunity tank b4 with my firsted crested and she live in harmony with a long tailed grass lizard, a small ground skink i found at a park, a little unknow frog(same park), green anoles and brown anoles. I had a total of 8 animals inside a 20h and nothing happened. Now im going to get a 29g and ive been looking at crocodile skinks and noticed they r almost like cresteds but they like to swim. I was wondering if any1 has any objections to this or if i could put any other animals instead.

Big P

Great you are a hero, thank you for letting us know.

Ever wondered why those animals need different climate?
-----
Ingo Hess
My Reptiles

ps: sorry for partitial strange english, im from europe, austria.

advice... yeah. Seperate your species.

You claim to know the risks, so you can't claim ignorance... do you just like risking your animals life?

yeah i do like take risks but i talked to a couple friends and a herpatologist and they said since the speciese where so diversed that there wasnt a worry about much except conflict for feeding or space.

So nah

ok. let me try to explain you this.
first: if you put all those creatures in such a small tank (and yes it is way to small) it can have the effect that the animals have no way to create their own territory. positiv effect: there is a chance they will surrender and that for wont fight each other
negativ effect: one day in near future they are very likely to simply drop dead in your experiment

2nd: anoles need different climate than cresteds, your frog will very likely need a different climate than the anoles and the cresteds. some kind of skinks and the cresteds might work, if the skinks dont get to big and see cresteds as food and if they need the same climate.
and climate ist not simply like you in summer, ohhhhhh its hot, im sweating, as you might know, reptiles are cold blooded and need the proper climate to get the right body temperatures. they have no other way to do that.

not even counting other health issues and stuff

nice to hear, that you take the risk, that your animals die, but, how about a good computergame, where you can kill your citizens when ever you want? huh? and its even cheaper!

best regards

ciliatus
-----
Ingo Hess
My Reptiles

ps: sorry for partitial strange english, im from europe, austria.

no computer games r kinda expensive now a days and the only lizard that died was my long tailed grass lizard from choking on a cricket

Im going to aggree with the other two replies that you got. If your herp friend said this was OK.........he is wrong. Anoles need like 90-95 basking temp and about 80 gradient i think.........cresteds should not be kept above 80.

8 animals in a 20 high is way to many........that is good for like 3 anoles or 2 cresteds if you do what is right for the animals.

" ive been looking at crocodile skinks and noticed they r almost like cresteds but they like to swim"

Uhhm..........NO! Not even close to similar.

What you want to do will only case stress all of the animals out.

John

WEll i agree that it was too many but i also let the anoles go after a month and i did have a small basking light but it never stressed my crested. The first 2 months i didnt have a problem with the anoles the room was warm enough where the crested was happy and all the other lizards. If having all those animals in the tank at once would have stressed another well i dint see any stress. They all eat when i thorugh food in, the crested shared its baby food with the anoles and there was no problem. If stress was a factor i didnt see anything like it. As with the crocodile skinks thre is only gonna be 2 mayb 3 if i could find a trio but they r in a 29 gallon and im thinking now that i can make the tanks longer by adding the 20 gallon to it. This will let the skinks move freely to the water and they have there own smaller part. They also wont have to worry about the food being eaten all by the cresteds.

Community tanks are being done all over the world I'm going to be the one who will perfect it. I mite not have as much knowlege as you do but ive being keeping herps since i was 3 and im 15 now so 12 years of experience and all i do now is read up on them and find what can be with what. I look at the natural habitats and see what other places are like it and what animals are avaible from those places. Its not like im putting a crested gecko into a desert terrium with 4 beared dragons. I KNOW WHAT IM DOING! I get my animals checked out like once ever 1 or 2 months. My vet said i have nothin to really worry about becuase they are all healthy. So now im going to do this. Im going to have crocodile skinks with crested geckos.

"You never will know the answer if you dont try"- alot of people say it so i follow it and more people should.

Read the Mini Monitor issue of Reptile Magazine. In the back talks about some1 in Europe having a Giant Monkey Frog and a Eye Lashed Viper with something else. I think thats stupid cuz u got a venomous snake in with ur animals. Its like Putting a rattle snake with a bearded dragon and hoping for the best. What im doing is nothing like that. These animals are the same size,it diurnal and nocturnal, terrestrial and airaboral(cant spell for my life), they both like it cool and with more than 50% of humidity so i think i did my reasurch.

BIG P

bringing healthy animals every 1 or 2 months to the vet also is unnessesary stress for the animals.

and if you want to have community tanks, they need to be way bigger. the europeaon you wrote of is a fool. over here in europe most people prefer tanks with only one species. very experienced herpers might mix two or three species if they are not stressing out each other, need exactly the same climate, plus come from the same area. most of the people who are doing that, have kept species that they put together, for several years in 1 species tanks, so they know their normal behaviour and problems befor mixing them up.

how can you tell if your anoles are stressed out, or your skinks? you dont know them enough.
do you know the scientific names of your animals?

best regards

ciliatus
-----
Ingo Hess
My Reptiles

ps: sorry for partitial strange english, im from europe, austria.

Stress is something hard to read on a reptile.

Your idea of stress is probably not eating, skinny, not coming out of hiding, etc. That is past stress. How do you know if the skinks are like, "OMG what are those huge things climbing above me, im freaked out"? You don't is the answer.

I think it is fine to experiment a little, but not with lives that are put into your care.

Im pretty sure you are going to do this anyway, but ohh well i tried.

John

well the skink thought the same thing in the wild and when i captured him too. I dont know what u mean when u say like not eating,skinny and all that is passed stressed. Explain that to me cuz im not following.

Those signs occure after the stress occures. 1st is stress (that OMG im freaked out feeling), then 2nd is not eating etc., then 3rd is death.

Bottom line is that it is hard to see if a reptile is happy or not until it's health gets affected.

John

a year u say, huh. well i kept changing my mind so that was when i let my anoles go, my skink and frog also especaped when i was cleaning the cage(how do i know they escaped instead of being eaten, the skink ran out of my hand into a bush and the frog wen out a hole in the container i put it in seprate from the crested and long tail). I agree stress could have been a factor but i normally c stress as hiding,not eating ect. I do also regrate putting different lizards from diffrent climates together, i should have done more research but the 20g was all that i had and i was gonna get a bigger tank but that fell through when the tank i bought slipped out of my and my grandpas hands. but as time went on i saw no problem and left it that way. Now ive been doing research like crazy and the crocodile skink and crested both like it cool,low light,high humdity, eat the same, and r just about the same size. I think yall better do ur research on crested and crocodile skinks before yall say no not a good idea. I have no clue how this message board became how i kept my lizards b4 the question was about crested and crocodike skinks. but thanks for for your help and concern.

I don't have so much a problem with a well done community set up as I do with some of your other practices.

1. I'm not sure about where you are, but in VA it is illegal to capture reptiles and then re-release them to another area. I have strong problems with you mixing these captive and wild species together and then releasing them back to the wild again. How do you know you aren't introducing something to the wild that that population didn't have? (and NO, a vet's "clean bill of health" does not mean it isn't carrying anything.. just that it isn't demonstrating a load of something they are looking for).

2. I am sure that you mean well and have read up on things, but at 15 years old, you do NOT have the experience that older herpers have and you don't have the ability to predict the consequenses (sp?) It isn't anything against you, it's a scientific FACT.

3. If you truely want a mixed community... then make sure you have the largest cage you can get. If you don't have said cage in hand, do not add additional animals to that environment. (IE: I PLAN on getting XYZ cage next month...) I would also suggest introducing all occupants of said cage at the same time. Most people who plan mixed communities want to have some type of commonality or theme: African desert; madagascar; southwestern; etc.. where all the species would naturally be in the same area with the same requirements. Have you considered studying up on New Caldonia and finding out what other reptiles and amphibians are in the same environment as the crested geckos?

Am I advocating for you to mix species? No. But if you are going to do what you want, as you say, there are more responsible ways to go about it. A 10-15 Gal aquarium is recommended for ONE Crested, so adding 2-3 more creatures to something only 5 gal's larger, to me, is irresponsible.

-Bonnie

1. I'm not sure about where you are, but in VA it is illegal to capture reptiles and then re-release them to another area. I have strong problems with you mixing these captive and wild species together and then releasing them back to the wild again. How do you know you aren't introducing something to the wild that that population didn't have? (and NO, a vet's "clean bill of health" does not mean it isn't carrying anything.. just that it isn't demonstrating a load of something they are looking for).

IM in Fl and it isnt illegal to do this. The only lizard that wasnt from Fl was my grass lizard and he didnt escape. The green and brown anoles are from FL, the little frog and ground skink are too. The only captive bred was my crested(duh) but when i bought it was in a little critter cage that was very dirty so i think it could have built some kind of immunity. (its still living today with another female in the same tank.)

2. I am sure that you mean well and have read up on things, but at 15 years old, you do NOT have the experience that older herpers have and you don't have the ability to predict the consequenses (sp?) It isn't anything against you, it's a scientific FACT.

Well i have many older people who taught me about keeping them, what to watch out for, what to expect ect, so it wasnt me just throwing the lizards together. They told me they should b fine just make sure the crested is ok when u raise the heat a little and keep it misted. I also did this in the winter so it wasnt really warm so the anoles didnt need a really hot basking spot.

3. If you truely want a mixed community... then make sure you have the largest cage you can get. If you don't have said cage in hand, do not add additional animals to that environment. (IE: I PLAN on getting XYZ cage next month...) I would also suggest introducing all occupants of said cage at the same time. Most people who plan mixed communities want to have some type of commonality or theme: African desert; madagascar; southwestern; etc.. where all the species would naturally be in the same area with the same requirements. Have you considered studying up on New Caldonia and finding out what other reptiles and amphibians are in the same environment as the crested geckos?

I was planing to get a larger 1 and i did but the problem was it was too large for me and my grandpa to handle it feel out of our hands. It was a 55 gallon. The only occupant that was in the 20g was the crested b4 they were all put in the cage. Me i didnt really think about doing a theme from a country or continent i just normally thought jungle/forest. Now im doing research looking at the islads comparing them ect. When u same environment do u mean like temperature and forest?

Big P

Im pretty sure MejaNica's idea of a large cage for a community tank is larger than a 55 gallon tank. Even that it quite small for a community tank.

You are really not making any more serious points....you just keep repeating.

I know u don't want to be wrong and you will probably do what you want to do anyway......even though you asked for advice and we gave it to.

John

yeah i ran out of serious points. but i like the advise but like i said b4 u never know if u dont try so im gonna give it another shot. If a 55 isnt big enought what would be. Now the question i asked in the beggining was could i keep crocodile skinks and cresteds together but some how it went to my past when i did my first community tank. the only thing i have in the 20 is 2 cresteds. im getting a 29 and i was just wondering if it would b a good idea to have crested and crocodile skinks together. Thats y i ran out of serious points and yall been asking the same questions and telling me the same thing so im going to watch out for stress.

BIg P

"im getting a 29 and i was just wondering if it would b a good idea to have crested and crocodile skinks together. Thats y i ran out of serious points and yall been asking the same questions and telling me the same thing so im going to watch out for stress. "

We did answer that lol. It wouldn't be a good idea was everyones answer so far.

John

You dont know what your doing at all, do you? You obviously did no research before mixing the species, you dont know how big community tanks should be, you probably never even took your animals to an exotics vet. Id almost be willing to bet money on that last one, prove me wrong. Post receits(sp). People on this site are incredibly nice and helpful, be thankful for that. On other sites you would have had your butt handed to you a long time ago. Just get some fecals done, dont mix species, and research more.

Well idk if u could call my vet a exotic vet because he works at petsmart but he knows what he saying. the reciets im 15 i dont keep them but i wish i did so i could prove u wrong. I only did 1 community tank and yes i said i didnt do any research but on this 1 ive studied the crocodile skink for 3 years now and ive studied the crested for 4 years so i think i know what im doing. As for community tank size ive never eally looked into seeing how big a tank needs to be and i also never really found any1 who has. If u see something like that show me. and as for the people on kingsnake being nice, they r and really helpfull but u were kinda mean but im stubborn so u need to be mean to get it in my head. I have to try new things. So prove to me that idk what im talking and i wont do this.

BIG P

yeah probably but i think people have to try. Ive seen in books that people keep anoles with other anoles and some lizard that have a prehinsile(sp?) tail. People have kept bearded dragon and frilled dragons together. They have done there research and i have done my years of research on cresteds and crocodile skinks(4 and 3 years). Ask me about them answer u questions.

BIG P

Ok, I quickly looked up croc. skinks because I didn't know anything about them. As far as I can tell, they don't really sound like they would have the same cage requirements as a crested at all!

-They require upto 89 degree heat. CG's cannot tolerate above 80 degrees.
-They require a diggable, moist substrate & water bowl deep enough to swim in. This would be a foul area that would be ripe for bacteria with the heat and feces and if your crested could drink from that or drown (depending).
-They both are most active at night, so they would be crossing each others paths & compete for food, etc.

29-gal is too small for 2 CG's and another species. Period.

You ask how large for a community tank? Think large enough to walk in. one of those 6' tall cages and think layers. Putting competing species in a cage that would all utelize the same space doesn't sound smart. You said that you have studied these species for years... what are you reading that sounds like they have similar care requirements except for the crickets?

-Bonnie

where did u get that information everything i read dosent say anything about tehm liking 89 degrees and they being mostly nocturnal.

if you would have read up on cresteds you would know their scientific name, and would post in the rhacodactylus forum. if you would have read up on cresteds, you would know 20 gallons (like now) is waaaaay to small for 2 of them, even 29gallons is very close to the minimum in my opinion.
if you would have read up on cresteds you would know that it is not adviced to keep a male and a female permanent in one cage, due to stress and possible mbd if done so.

if you would have read up on crocodile skinks you would have given me their scientific name, after my question in one of the previous posts. are we talking about tribolonotus gracilis? if so, they are super shy, and super easily stressed out. not really a good joice for a community tank. as i think you are someone who simply wants more action in his tank, i tell you dont take them, you wont see them. and they need very high humidity, higher than cresteds.

as a ceeper of rhac. ciliatus i know my male, nor the some of the more dominant females would accept any other species in their tank.

what would be the big problem if you keep them each in their own tank?

best regards

ingo
-----
Ingo Hess
My Reptiles

ps: sorry for partitial strange english, im from europe, austria.

ok well first off i have 2 females second crested gecko are ok in a 10 gallon so double that and u got 20. I would like to know where you got ur information on croc skinks too. I know they secretite but i dont think that means they are stressed out easly.

Sorry i forgot to post the scientifict(sp?) names and i thought i posted this in the crested gecko fourm when i was doing this.

You STILL have no clue what your talking about. Just google "crocodile lizard care" first three care sheets, basking temps are 82-89 degrees. This would KILL a crestie. Also, recommended cage size for a FOUR MONTH old crestie is a 10 gallon, and after that a 20 gallon is considered the minimum FOR ONE. An average on 30 gallons for two adults as per the care sheets. Just do some research, not that demanding. Here, ill write out the steps for you.
1. Get on the internet
2. Go to google
3. type in "crested gecko care"
4. click first option and read, when done, click the "BACK"
button
5. click second option and read, etc.
6. Now, when done reading all relevant information, go back to google, and type in "crocodile gecko care"
7. repeat steps 4 and 5
There! thats not so hard! Seven easy steps to lizard care!
You obviously dont know what your doing at all. Oh, and im still waiting for you to prove me wrong about the vet visits. Just call the office up and have them print your medical records, or account statements, and post them somewhere, or, post their name and phone number and ill call them myslef to verify that you do, infact, take your animals there 1-2 times a MONTH. I think your lying, again, PROVE ME WORNG.

community tanks are fine. we do in fact mix species with herps that are from the same locations, for those who know enough about each herp to be able to watch for stress, territory issues, etc. i don't know what 8 animals you housed in a 20 gallon but that's sort of scary anyway. i'm going to talk about husbandry which does not mean owning a bunch of animals. it means giving each animal more then enough respect, love and consideration so that it alone or in a group will live a very happy and healthy life while being able to experience all the good things about it's species normal behavors as best as possible. long sentance yeah but you should think first.

2 crested per 2 cubic foot enclosure at minimum. i only build 3 cubic foot enclosures which are twice as tall as they are square (w x d).

i feel that i need to express that this hobby is not about how many you can own...but how many you can properly care for with out compromising your lifestyle, abilities and still provide the RIGHT habitat for each species.

"...better arrange their own affairs before they try to arrange a terrarium." says it all. in that i read: if you can't afford twenty herps then don't buy them. i read: build before you buy. i read a lot but what i don't read is: buy a ton to show off to your friends.

Now that i'd said all that, if you care providing a large enough cage, i'd still only house one male and only up to five females regardless of your enclosure size and landscape design, flora and branch work. good luck.
Home is that way...

oh and i forgot, your saying you took from the wild what rightfully should have stayed there? how sad!
but know you want to risk CB health with WC herps which don't share the same localities and pathenogens? do you know anything about cross contamination? care? pathenogens? leaving what wild wild? i know i've bought leaf tails and mantellas but taking something from my back yard just to own becuase i want to is wrong. just plain wrong.

well with what is wild should stay in the wild thats means like all the reptiles and other animals people have captured,bred and domesticated some of them is taking from the wild. I under stand where ur coming from but people from all around the world do it. People if Fl go out and catch anoles people in like Texas go out and capture like collard lizards and other desert lizards some not legal too. I understand what your saying we all have out beliefs but i let all my animals who i caught in my back yard back into the back yard. My green and brown anoles, my ground skink(escpaed out of my hands into the wild) and my little unkown frog all went back to the wild. All that was left was the grass lizard and the crested until he died of choking(sp?) on a criket (i checked and it wasnt some desease or parisite)
I didnt really understand community tanks until now and i thank you for your information. I messed up on my first 1 but what do u think about crested and crocodile skinks. My research has told me that crocodile skinks like it cool like cresteds but they humdity is a higher. I read a small watt red bulb (50 watt and under) i dont see how that could affect the cresteds that much if i had a big enough cage. So tell me what u think and i look forward to reading what you think

Big P

like like dude man, proof reading helps a lot!

just kidding ya...

i'm not sure about the two that you want to mix. i personally
think it could work but as crested sometimes like the ground and what about any egg lay sites...i wouldn't. i would only mix from like locations and such. not to shoot your idea down though, i just wouldn't mix those two. if you want a mix tank, first figure out what size is the largest you can afford. then go from there. for example, if you enclosure is 10 square feet, then maybe you'd like a couple uroplatus and a few mantella or brookesia but that's a lot more work then a skink...LOL.

oh, and you principals on wild caught herps is a bit off but i'm not going there. i said my part. it's a difference between a dentist and uncle frank with regards to a loose tooth. uncle frank might just yank it out while a dentist might just teach you how to floss and clean up some tarter. big difference!

Well i think it cold work and like u said broomesia(sp?) or mantellas r harder than these skinks but egg sites isnt really a big deal. I mite not breed my 2 female crested( i dont have a male any how). What if i made it some what like a custom built cage too small to walk in but big enough for alot of things. Like what if i can a tree stump with a hole in it and fill it with moss. That could a hidng place and a egg site for the cresteds and do almost the same with the croc skinks. What do u think about that?

Big P

Lizarddude, if I knew you/saw you in real life I would smack you across the face for being so ignorant.

Why do you insist on keeping your animals together? Why do you insist on putting unnecessary stress and risk on your animals? WHY dont you listen to the people on these forums? The advice doesnt get any better than this. 99% of the people said its not a good idea. Listen to them!

Do your animals a favor and give them their own enclosures, or better yet, give them away!

You give hobbyists our age a bad name.

Thanks,
Andrew