Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Its all very amusing how we make ourselves out to be such wonderfully civilized creatures. We are not. There are too many people for there to be peace. Period. So, in the meantime, nature will rule and the "fittest" shall survive.

I always say that being in the U.S. Armed Forces is like being an ER doctor saving the life of a suicide "victim".

As far as "invading" other countries, last time I checked France and Britian had tons more colonies than the U.S. has dreamed of...granted, they weren't able to keep them under control. Personally I'd be all for naming Afghanistan "New Iowa" and Iraq could be "New Arizona", Yugoslavia = "New Montana", Somalia, Panama, etc. etc. It sure would make it the deaths of our airmen, soldiers, sailors, and marines a little easier to swallow.

I've got a couple qoutes to share...I can't recall the authors right off the top of my head, so forgive me.

"For those who pledge to uphold it, freedom requires a sacrifice the protected will never know."

"the only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

all of the above are my opinion, which I am free to wholehearted express, under the provisions of the most wonderful country currently in existence...The United States of America...whom I have served, whom my husband has served, and whom my father, mother, and grandfathers have served.

I'd like to thank you and your family for their service to our country. That was a wonderful post and like all your posts, it was well written. I loved your quotes and I thought I would throw one in for you....

He that wrestles with us strengthens our nerves, and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper. -Edmund Burke, statesman and writer (1729-1797)

p.s. loved your post about genetics on the ball forum

Thanks Gail! Great quote as well...Edmund Burke is also the author of the "good men" quote...thanks for triggering my memory

"For those who pledge to uphold it, freedom requires a sacrifice the protected will never know."

Next thing you know we'll be bombing orphanages in India saying the same thing. It is important to know what you are fighting for. In every "defense of our country", reason given it is evident that we did not actually know. Proof is in the pudding. We must only be willing to see it.

"the only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

It seems to me that a number of good men indeed did nothing to prevent this war. So this statement I agree with. The problem is that deception is a powerful tool. The best man in the world is rendered helpless with the wrong information. I believe that there is a grave and heavy burden to be placed on those who used what little information we had to paint a picture that benefited their goals.

To those who will patriotically stand up and shout that I am wrong. I beg you to use that passion to review the facts and be man enough to say "I love my country too much to let this deception dirty it's name, even if it is a popular deception."

-Paul

"To announce there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public" -- Theodore Roosevelt
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-audri
Webpage/Pics

To ignore the obvious is even worse.

scalawag

I couldn't have said it better myself.

What do you say we get to the heart of the matter? Do you like and support Saddam Hu's insane or Usama Bin-runnin' and what they stand for? Not once have you had one bad thing to say about them. Do you support terrorism? Do you think it was okay for Saddam to do what he did to countless Iraqis? Let's lay the cards on the table, shall we? What would you say to the face of the survivors(heart-broken family members) of Saddam's victims if you could see them face to face? What would you say to the American troops who are still fighting for those Iraqis and have lost comrades if you could see them face to face? What would you say to those who lost loved ones in the 9/11 tragedy? How about the spouses and children who suffered losses at the hands of terrorists when 17 sailors were killed on the USS Cole? Any comforting words to them? I know what I'd say. Thank you all for your sacrifices and contributions! Countless lives will be saved thanks to you.

Would you care to answer any of the above questions? Huh-whu?

I like your questions. Since you publicly asked them I will publicly answer. No I don't like Saddam. No I don't like Bin Laden. Does this mean I want to drop a nuke on their country? Sure it would get rid of these guys, but at what cost. You see that is the question. What cost and with what effectiveness? You might say, "Well we didn't nuke them, what's this guy talking about?" And your right we didn't, you'll also note that they are both still alive, still killing, and in my opinion still very great threats. Now yes they are in hiding and no they don't have countries of their very own any more, but they don't need them. Saddam is perfectly happy in the roll of a Baghdad gangster picking off his adversaries and waging a political war. Why shouldn't he be, that's who he was before we basically put him in power. Bin Laden was given quite the run around I'm sure, but it's nothing he hasn't been doing most of his life. And for every terrorist camp bombed 10 will spring up in other countries full of people willing to fight the foreign infidels. Every hostile act we perform adds fuel to the fire that gives Bin Laden his recruits and support. If we were to stop giving Bin laden martyrs what would he bomb us with?

To me, Bin Laden is the embodiment of social angst. We may never capture him, hell he may already be dead. You see, it doesn't matter. He will always exist as long as we provide a reason for him to.

In Saddam's case I disagree with the politics of it all. The man could have been contained without war. He could have been stopped without firing a bullet. Saddam isn't the whole problem that country has either. Iraq has an enormous history of bloodshed between ethnic and political groups. Most of the complaints you have about Saddam's cruelty isn't going to go away with Saddam. It may go behind closed doors, but there will continue to be victims every day of a battle that began there millennia before we ever existed. This has no short solution, though I wish it did.

Look, I'm human too. I hate death, suffering, and people who enjoy bringing it about, but open your mind a bit. This isn't a Hollywood movie, there is no single bad guy to kill and there is no girl in distress to save. What we do have, is our hands stuck in a jar full of 1000's of years of conflict, wars, and hate for foreign conquerors. Let's learn from the history in this place, conquering and warring in the Arab lands has never yielded peace. The only peace that has ever existed in that region has come through cautious respect building and trade.

Feel free to e-mail me if you would like to discuss this more.

-Paul Holsinger
sauzin@hotmail.com

"Cautious respect, building and trade" - That's your solution to Saddam Hussein? Ha Ha ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

get a grip!

scalawag

Watch out Paul, Bush and his evil regime might be planning a midnight raid on your house. You better watch out for this evil government of ours. Orphanages are not safe from it, not even in India. Whatever you do, don't believe anything you see or hear on the TV, especially if it's coming from that evil Bush. I mean it's obvious that he's only out to take over the world. Thankfully, for the uninformed like me, we've got you to give us the "head's up" about what's REALLY going on! Thanks big guy!

scalawag

LMAO!

I never said a word about Bush, though I must admit the shoe does seem to be fitting rather snug on him these days.

What's a matter...does truth that sounds like paranoia scare you? Sure we know a President never lie's. Not like we've ever had scandal in the executive office or anything. I wonder if the people who prosecuted the Nixon administration will be remembered as paranoid freaks or non-patriots?

No actually I would like to encourage people to listen to the news over the next couple of months. The media seems to be catching on to all the back peddling everyone has been doing. I predict it won't take long for someone to get backed into a pretty tight corner.

Once again, you have nothing of substance to say. You hint about some cryptic, future scandal, but of course you don't need facts to jabber on like a fortune-teller. The facts are not your friend. Keep on grasping for straws you anti-American pantywaste.

scalawag

You know, I've been decieved by some of those closest to me as well, and yet I still wake up each morning with a smile on my face. when you have seen the way other people live, the things they have to endure...you reach a point when you realize that some things are bigger than one man (or woman) can change, and to ask for perfection is, well...arrogant.

You are insinuating that everyone in America was duped! Don't forget that the American President is only a temporary figurehead. A convenient scapegoat blamed for all things gone wrong because the average American is too damn happy to worry themselves with each little nitpicking thing that is wrong with our government. There are hundreds of men that sit on capitol hill crafting laws that the President will be blamed for. If the president were to do something the American public believed to be so terribly injust, he would be impeached.

If an American does not agree, they have several choices...speak up...if it's important enough to one person, they can gain enough support to make a change. The problem therein is that most of the people who protested the war were too late. They protested WAR in general, and knew nothing of the affairs in Iraq or the Middle East for that matter. They can always leave, if American government disgusts them so much (which is also a priviledge not granted by many countries like Saddam's Iraq). I can't imagine being a prisoner in my own country!

On a whole, we are scrappers...we actually enjoy kicking a little ass...especially when people talk sh!t, and I don't mind IF the WMD was an excuse (I do believe they were there...and it worries me where they are now)

Call us bullies, call us whatever you like. I call it simple social hierarchy. I'm glad this administration walked the talk...it's a far better alternative to the actions we've been forced to take in the past, which amounted to the foreign policy equivalent of a "time out". Those actions had nothing short of a neutering effect on our military and our spirits.

Personally, I wish we wouldn't come to the defense of each country that asks...as soon as we do, then everyone expects it, and we are ridiculed for protecting this one and ignoring that one, or for spending money on foreign affairs when there are domestic problems that need attention.

And then there is Iraq, who did everything to piss us off. Saddam got a warning, and then he got taken out. The problem with being the only superpower left is that everyone would like to see us go down because we are viewed as an unchecked threat (which is odd, because we don't colonize...we only go in when requested or our hand is forced) Like my grandpa used to say "If you aren't the lead dog, the view never changes."

Our country is very young, but very successful...I wonder why that is...hmmmmm...

n/p

scalawag

Right on! God bless you for posting that!!!