Reptile & Amphibian Forums

over this weekend my kids caught this guy and brought him to me.
ques 1- i live in socal r this okay to keep
ques 2- how do they usually do in captivity
ques 3- what kind of setup do they require
any and all info would be appericiated....thanx

The best thing to do for the lizard is to tell your kids to let him go right back from where they found him. A wild animal should not be held in captivity for the rest of it's life. It is the same as taking a child away from its home and keeping it somewhere else it doesn't want to be. Your kids may not want to let it go, but it is in the best interest of the lizard. It is especially important since you don't know how to properly care for him. I strongly suggest you tell your kids to let him go right where they caught him. It is very important for them to be let go in the same place you found them so they are in familiar territory. He will be much better off in the wild where he was found.

Alligator lizards are legal to keep in California, and they can make wonderful pets if their needs are met. Judging by the head shape, yours looks to be a male.

I recommend a 20 gallon or equivalent size tank. If you're keeping them inside, they don't seem to need any supplimental heat. For substrate, you want something that is not easily ingested during feeding. I've currently got mine on reptibark, but I've also used alfalfa pellets in the past. The crushed walnut shells are too easily ingested and the sharp edges have the potential to cut on the way through. Substrates like calci and vita sand can bind together when ingested creating immovable blockages. Water should be provided in a small dish and kept clean (the lizard doesn't need to get into the water). Alligator lizards also need plenty of places to hide. Some also like to climb, so you may want to add a few branches.

Crickets are the best available staple. They need to be gutloaded for at least four hours before you feed them to your lizard. Half your lizards nutritions will come from the stomach contents of its prey so it's important that your crickets are well fed. You can feed crickets fishfood, crushed high quality dog or cat food, or a commercially available cricket food. For moisture you can give your crickets orange slices, carrots and other fresh veggies.

Immediately prior to feeding, your crickets need to be dusted with a high quality calcium and vitamin powder. I use and recommend rep-cal with vitamin d3 and herptivite. In order to properly use calcium, lizards require a 2:1 ratio of calcium to phospherus. Feeder insects tend to be high in phospherus and low in calcium, so it is important to select a phospherus free calcium supplement (your supplement should not contian things like calcium phosphate etc). If you fail to properly supplement your lizard, it will begin drawing calcium out of its bones, this will cause the bones to become weak and overtime your lizard will lose the ability to eat because its jaw will be too weak to hold prey and it will develop skeletal deformities. Alligator lizards are very prone to this (Metabolic Bone Disease / MBD), if they are not properly supplemented.

I've successfully raised alligator lizards without any special lighting, but I've been using a repti-sun flourescent for the last couple of years just to be safe (UV radiation aids in calcium absorption).

Many wild alligator lizards also have external parasites such as mites and ticks. Ticks are usually found behind the ears and can be removed with a tweezers. Mites will look like small grains of pepper crawling over your lizard. Mite treatment is a bit more tricky. If you find mites you will need to sterilize the whole tank and all of the furnishings. Put your lizard in a small cage like a critter keeper with paper towel and clean the cage daily. I've successfully treated mites by soaking the lizard and cleaning the cage daily and removing all the mites I saw manually (took about 2 weeks). I've also heard of others having success by coating the lizard with mineral or olive oil to suffocate the mites. If using oil, be careful to keep it out of the nose and eyes.

If properly cared for, alligator lizards can be long lived in captivity and many will eventually become tame and readily accept food from your hand. It does, however, require a bit of work and expense to keep them properly.

-Alice

thank you alice for all your info. i will discuss the pros & cons w/ the kids and see if we want to take on the responsibility of keeping this lil guy, we have all the nesecities it will need for we have schneiders, leos and a grumpy old iguana... thanx again for your info.

Since you've got other herps, I want to throw in a word of caution. Make sure you wash your hands before and never offer food that's been exposed to your other herps to your al. The same goes with cage furnishings etc. These items could transfer parasites and bacteria from your other lizards to your al. If your al were then to be released, these pathogens would also enter the wild population. If such exposure has already occurred, you should either keep the lizard, or find it another home with the stipulation that it is not suitable for release.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Als are awesome lizards!

-Alice

In Alice's message, it gives a lot of info about keeping an Alligator lizard as a pet, however, like I said, I strongly recommend that you return it to where it was found. All wild animals should be left in their natural environment. This species may be good as a pet, but it is much better for the animal and the keeper if it is bought from a breeder that has captive bred these animals, therefore, the lizard is born used to a captive situation and is not taken from his home in the wild. Please do what is best for this animal.

Virtually no one is breeding southern alligator lizards. Southern alligator lizards are native to California and under California law it is illegal to buy, sell or barter native reptiles. From what I understand becuase it is illegal in CA, purchasing one from out of state would violate the Lacy Act. So, really the only option for a California resident who wants to own a southern al is to catch one. You are legally allowed to take two with a fishing license.

I find taking babies preferable to taking adults, but I've taken adults myself on occaision. I think keeping native reptiles can help foster an appreciation of the species and a concern for what happens to the wild populations. It certainly did in my case. As long as it's done legally and the individual is willing to take on the time and expense involved in keeping the animal, I have no problem with it.

I also think that catching your own is much better than purchasing a wc. By catching your own you cut out the middle man, in many cases there are a number of animals that die for every live animal brought to market and the animals that do make it are often the worse for ware due to substandard conditions they were held under prior to sale.

So if an individual is interested in owning a species that is not readily available as a cb, catching their own is the best option. If southerns als were widely captive bred by in CA, with lots of peolple looking to give away cb babies, I'd agree with you.

-Alice

thank you again for all your help. my family and i decided to let it go in the same area it was caught, the couple of days we had it gave the kids and myself a good chance to look for and find info on 1 of our native herps and try to learn about them..
once again thanx, warren

Whether they are being bred in captivity or not, it is still wrong to take an animal out of their natural habitat, it makes no difference. It's still bad fot the animal. And the reason you gave to justify them keeping it is lousy. Someone as knowledgable as you on herp care I would have expected to know that.

Most of my knowledge about husbandry for this species has been gleaned from keeping wild caught individuals over the years. I currently have over dozen wild caught herps of 11 different species that I regularly use for presentations to local youth groups. Although I agree with cb being preferable, most of my natives are not available as cb. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this subject.

-Alice

hello alice, i was wondering if you could tell me what kind of snakes are in pic #1&2

The first snake is the long tailed form of the sharp-tailed snake (Contia tenuis), he's just about adult size in that picture. They feed almost exclusively on slugs. They're very secretive, but also very cool, especially if you've got a yard full of slugs

The second snakes are baby mojave glossy snakes (Arizona elegans candida). They can get upwards of 3 feet as adults. In the wild, they eat a lot of lizards. One, however, took an unscented pinki right off the bat. The second needed his pinki rubbed on one of my pet lizards. He now also occaisionally takes unscented, but usually insists on having it rubbed on a lizard. Hopefully, he'll outgrow this. They seem to be much slower growers than gophers and kings. They're also a bit pissy, but it's pretty much all show.

-Alice

I agree Alice. There is nothing wrong with keeping a wild caught animal as long as certain conditions are met. It must be legal (we all know by now what a stickler I am for the law), ethical (best option for acquiring the animal, best place to collect it etc etc), and the collector should be prepared and willing to provide for the animal. I have kept wc Alligator Lizards and they thrive in captivity and even grow curious about their keeper. In fact it is true for many species that wc animals will thrive in captivity every bit as well as cb individuals. I keep a lot of Garters and I have found little difference between cb and wc as far as adapting to captivity. I have a large collection and most of my animals are cb but the fact is all cb species have originated from wc animals. CB animals sometimes fail to thrive as well. One reason is genetic weakness for inbreeding.
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Randy Hallman

While I don’t share reptilesrock’s enthusiasm I do have to agree with most every to an extent, If nothing is known about the species in question this is a good place to get info however. If you are dead set on keeping it and are willing to keep it for the long run then alice knows her stuff when if comes to care. I collect, document and release this species all the time with no ill affects as of yet, At the same time I will agree with reptilesrock in that if you decide to let it go it should be released in suitable habitat. Not necessarily the exact spot it was collect but maybe the same region or for that matter any region that houses this species, I don’t car what the field guides say this species is not present across the state so you will have to do your own research as to where to release it should you come to that conclusion. Where are you located? If we knew that it would e easier to give instructions. I know you mentioned Socal but it’s a large place so specifics will be nice. Just keep in mind this is the largest species in my area of N California and I can personal testify that adults can produce a painful bite.

My research and Collection

I think that it is very important to release animals where you caught them or as close as possible. With this species, I've noticed different color variations in different localities. For example, on the air force base where I work, in the grassland on the southern part of the base, the als are very yellow, up the mountains they tend to be dark brown with faint cross bands. In the scrub they tend to be highly variable and there is one oak woodland / chaparral location where individuals with black bars on a yellowish background seem to predominate. This is a relatively small area in terms of this species total range, but one can easily see how relocating individuals from the grassland to the mountain etc. has the potential to mess things up. I also don't live all that far from the integrade zone between the San Diego subspecies and the California subspecies. Releasing individuals without regard to locality of origin could further muddy that line.

Taxonomy is also a work in progress. One species can be split into two during the next round of revisions. Take what's going on with the long and the short tailed forms of the sharp-tailed snake as an example. In the field guides they are still listed as a single species. Yet, they have distinc morphologies and occupy different habitats. A short-tailed probably wouldn't be too happy being released into the middle of long-tailed habitat.

Not to be harsh on anyone, if you are bent on releasing an animal, plan on taking it back to the capture site. If returning the animal to the capture site is going to be difficult, the animal should not be removed.

-Alice

You make a very good point, I did not think of different color morphs. You certainly would not want to release a woodland individual in grassland were it has the potential to stick out like a sore thumb or possibly change the color morph in that are through breeding with the local population.

My research and Collection

Jason, I'd like to ask you something. How would you like to be taken from your home and taken to a place you don't know and be locked up in a cage where you are separated from your usual life and restricted to where you go? I'll let you think on that one for a while.

If such a thing were to happen it would have to be dealt with accordingly, However a lot of our local species to not have long life expectancies in the wife for example many fence lizards never see there 2nd year of life do to the fact that they are on the bottom of the food chain so in turn they are given a better life if collected and cared for properly. On that note your question is not even a realistic one. I suppose we should not have dogs, cat, birds or fish for pet either according to your rules. I am a supporter of field collecting in a responsible manner as set for by the CDFG, While I don’t agree with all of there classification I do agree with most. The only thing I can honestly say to you is if you don’t like what you read here then stop reading it. A great many of us enjoy going out and participating in field collecting activities and most of us are licensed to do so by our respective states, Therefore I highly doubt you will make an impact on any of our activities by saying things such as “How would you like to be put in a cage far from your home” That’s all I have to say about that and this will be my last post on this topic, I will be the better man and let you speak the last word.

My research and Collection

reptilesrock, there ARE ways of telling whether or not a lizard is stressed in captivity. I've cared for many Alligator Lizards in the past, each time taking careful notes on their behavior in correspondence with their cage setup, feeding, lighting, etc.. One of the first Alligator Lizards I ever had showed obvious signs of stress, such as clawing at the glass, digging in all the corners, and refusing to eat sometimes. I let that lizard go (in the same place that I caught it) due to its behavior. Since then, I have modified the way I take care of them and the way I set up their cages. The result is that I now have happy Alligator Lizards. They don't try to escape, they pig out on their food (and really enjoy hunting in the process) and they don't seem to mind my presence at all. I also want to add that one of my previous Alligator Lizards was very sick and had a bad case of ticks when I caught him. I helped him heal in captivity and most likely saved his life.

The wild can be a miserable place for lizards, so you have to think deeper than "how would you feel if you were stuck in a cage?” If I lived in the same conditions as lizards and could be eaten by bigger predators at any second, then I would love to live in captivity. Lizards have little to worry about when cared for correctly. Sometimes I find myself wishing I were a lizard (in captivity) when I stare at my fat healthy Alligator lizards sleeping peacefully below their heat lamps in the perfect temperatures, all of which they obtained with no work required.

Maybe so, you can find signs of stress in captivity. Even so, if an animal is born in the wild, it belongs there, not in captivity, and just because you don't think it's stressed, it could very well be stressed.

And, as we all very well know, the wild is a stress free place. In the wild food is bountiful and is delevered daily on schedule. There is no need to worry about being carried off and disembowled by a hungry hawk, swallowed whole by a cal king, cannabolized by a larger al, or beaten up by the dominant male. In fact, in the wild almost every baby is assured of making it to maturity and living a long and healthy life.

In terms of the well being / happiness of the individual lizard, both captivity and freedom have their pros and cons and associated stressors. I'd, however, be willing to bet that a young al is much less stressed in an appropriate captive environment. In terms of what is good for the species as a whole, it is best to leave mature individuals who have managed to survive in the wild where they can reproduce and make more als. But, taking a couple babies who have a very slim chance of making it to maturity, and who will adapt readily to a life within four walls, into captivity is not going to adversly impact the wild population and will not be unduely stressful to the captives.

With your ideology, I must ask, do you own any herps?

-Alice

Yes, I own a Bearded Dragon and a Leopard Gecko, but they are both captive bred from a professional breeder. I would never purchase a wild caught animal, or take one from the wild to keep in captivity.

I should have clarified excessive inbreeding. As certain morphs or characteristics are sought some breeders will inbreed animals generation after generation creating many animals that are genetically weak, deformed or otherwise unable to thrive. Some breeders will seek wc animals to strengthen their gene pools to avoid this problem.
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Randy Hallman