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Neodesha Plastics Answers A Question Concerning Their Former Caging Subsidiary...

Daniele Aug 01, 2005 02:52 PM

I was looking for a Neodesha terrarium, but had little luck in the classifieds, etc, so I wrote an e-mail to the Neodesha Plastics Co:

http://www.neodeshaplasticsinc.com/Contact NPI.html

Hi Ted:

Did/does your company make reptile terrariums? There was a company named Neodesha Plastics that made them a few years back, but I can't find a link to the terrariums.

Thanks...

Yours truly:

Daniel

Dear Daniel,

NPI did in fact design and manufacture reptile cages. We also had a wholly owned subsidiary, Bush Herpetological Supply.

In 2002 we sold that business to a Florida firm which named it Neodesha Cages, LLC and subsequently defaulted.

Let me know if you know someone who wants to buy the cages and get in the cage business.

Thank you for your inquiry.

Ted Peitz
Neodesha Plastics, Inc.
Twin Rivers Industrial Park
Neodesha, KS 66757

Phone 620-325-3096
FAX 620-325-3510

I read on another fora that they are back in business, but are having "marketing problems", like the fact that everyone thinks they went out of business. This puts that theory to rest... Hope this is useful information!

Replies (23)

Bill S. Aug 01, 2005 06:29 PM

Boy, do I wish someone with cage making ability and good business sense would buy that equipment and start up. I have original Neo cages and still love every one of them. The guys who tried to make a go of it a few years back really ruined things -- making bad product, not filling orders, and then running away when things got rough.

Maybe someday, someone, somewhere will have the smarts to get things going again. If that happens they will quickly get to know me as a customer.

Bill

markg Aug 01, 2005 08:36 PM

>>Boy, do I wish someone with cage making ability and good business sense would buy that equipment and start up. I have original Neo cages and still love every one of them. The guys who tried to make a go of it a few years back really ruined things -- making bad product, not filling orders, and then running away when things got rough.
>>
>>Maybe someday, someone, somewhere will have the smarts to get things going again. If that happens they will quickly get to know me as a customer.
>>
>>Bill
-----
Mark G

Animals:
A few Rosy boas, mountain kings, Cal kings and Children's pythons.

Caging:
Visionariums, Herpcages.com, Precision, 5 gal tanks for babies.

chris_harper2 Aug 01, 2005 09:19 PM

The zoo I worked at used to have a handful of the various Neodeshas. What I did not like about them was their tendency to crack when exposed to certain disinfectants. In fact I believe Neodesha only recommended soap and water - no other cleaners.

All of ours cracked from the quaternary ammonia compound we used at the zoo. I don't remember the exact product. It was not chlorhexadine (nolvasan).
-----
Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

markg Aug 02, 2005 12:25 PM

I heard some people having that happen. Thing is with Neos, soap and water was easy to use because their cages were so accessible for cleaning.

I have 7 year-old Neos that look new. I also have one of their plastic panels outside as the roof of a bunny shelter. It has been there in the sun for 5 years, and I can stand on it without it breaking. Either that panel is strong or I'm lean.
-----
Mark G

Animals:
A few Rosy boas, mountain kings, Cal kings and Children's pythons.

Caging:
Visionariums, Herpcages.com, Precision, 5 gal tanks for babies.

Bill S. Aug 02, 2005 12:55 PM

Mine are from the early 90s and are still nice. Very easy to keep clean since there are no seams and the inside edges and corners are rounded. Heck, I've even carried the big ones outside and hosed them down from time to time.

The strongest thing I've ever used to clean them is Spray 9 a few times. That was to remove some newspaper ink. Other than that, a wet paper towel or one with soapy water is all I need.

I have seen some nasty looking used Neos at herp shows from time to time. How they got that way I haven't a clue. With just simple cleaning mine have held up for over 10 years.

Bill

markg Aug 03, 2005 08:09 PM

>>I have seen some nasty looking used Neos at herp shows from time to time. How they got that way I haven't a clue.>>

Me too! I've always wondered that. Maybe fluorescent lighting? Fluorescents can turn the color of ABS plastic (that is what Neos were made from), but it doesn't result in less strength of the material.

-----
Mark G

Animals:
A few Rosy boas, mountain kings, Cal kings and Children's pythons.

Caging:
Visionariums, Herpcages.com, Precision, 5 gal tanks for babies.

chris_harper2 Aug 04, 2005 12:24 PM

Two biggest factors I've seen with Neodesha cages is cracking and discoloration from disinfectants.

Another big factor is burning from Flexwatt.

Same things can and have happened with white PVC cages. PVC seems a bit more durable than ABS, but I have not done a true apples to apples comparison.
-----
Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

chris_harper2 Aug 04, 2005 12:29 PM

I did not mean to come across as "dissing" Neodesha. I don't mind the idea of a cage that can only be cleaned with certain items, but I wish they had been more clear that certain disinfectants SHOULD NOT be used.

If I had known I would have avoided quats and iodine based disinfectants and used bleach instead. Of course I'm still not clear if bleach is okay on ABS plastic.

To be fair, there are numerous cage companies who don't warn about similar limitations with current products. HDPE is the only plastic that can be cleaned with pretty much anything.
-----
Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Matt Campbell Aug 03, 2005 12:35 PM

The zoo I work at has a 'ton' of Neodeshas of various vintages. We have a lot of the really old tan-colored hand-made fiberglass ones and a lot of the newer injection-molded cream-colored ones. I have likes and dislikes about all of their products. The slanted front tends to allow a better view into a cage on a shelf, however tends to reflect lights more than a straight front. The vents on the old fiberglass cages were nice and big, however the vents on the later plastic versions are ridiculously small - and with no side vents you are just as bad off as using a top-loading aquarium in terms of ventilation [stagnant air]. One thing I truly hate is the single glass pane design used on all of their cages smaller than the 48" cage. That single pane binds and grabs and is near impossible to open on some cages. Also, we've found that once you open and close a cage with a single pane enough times, the front part of the cage rim will crack and then the glass door tends to bind even worse and will jump out of its track most of the time when attempting to open. Their arboreal cages are flimsy enough to need three locks to hold the door closed, and again they have very poor ventilation. Finally, the cages with built in litter dams are problematic because you can't store them nested as you could with their other designs. Oh yeah, and the showcase cages are a pain unless you are using them only for shows and such because of the back access - only useful in a 'built-in' situation. Over all I only find them tolerable because of light weight and ease of cleaning [accept the ones with litter dams] - otherwise in my opinion they have more negatives than positives. Oh, yeah almost forgot - you have to use their rack or have shelving built or purchased special to hold the cages since you can't stack them.
-----
Matt Campbell
25 years herp keeping experience
Full-time zookeeper
Personal collection - 21 snakes (9 genera), 20 lizards (4 genera), 6 chelonians (2 genera)

Bill S. Aug 03, 2005 03:24 PM

What would you get nowadays if you were in the market for a 6-foot cage? Something with depth, too, like 30 - 36 inches. At least 18" high.

Thanks!

Bill

chris_harper2 Aug 04, 2005 02:41 PM

Bill,

What companies are actually making cages that big? I honestly have no idea. The only cages I see that size at zoos are old Neodeshas and Visions. Although I believe the Neos don't have anywhere near the front-to-back depth you mentioned. Visions, I believe, are pretty deep but I don't know just how much.

Shipping restrictions since the 9/11 attacks really seem to have put a dent in that market.
-----
Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

chris_harper2 Aug 04, 2005 03:03 PM

The 622 and 632 are 28" and 36" deep respectively. I see a lot of the 36" deep ones so I assume there's not much else in that size range.
-----
Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Matt Campbell Aug 04, 2005 07:23 PM

>>What would you get nowadays if you were in the market for a 6-foot cage? Something with depth, too, like 30 - 36 inches. At least 18" high.

Bill,

I suppose it depends on what you're wanting to house, but frankly I don't like many of the cages that are made in that large of a size. Vision makes a fairly big cage but it's gawd-awful expensive and I don't care what anyone says, they ALL sag in the middle, pinching the doors. Even with their lighting vents, they tend to be dark, and with no side vents they tend to have stagnant air issues that make them little better than glass aquaria. The Wildlife Discovery Center where I occasionally work part-time bought probably 40 various size Visions and the largest ones have sagged so much that one had to be taken out of use temporarily because the top sagged so much that one of the big glass doors started to fall out of it's track. Anyway, the other manufactures, like for instance Boaphile aren't much better. The Boaphiles don't have any ventilation - that 1/4 inch gap around the door is supposed to be ventilation? Please.

Anyway, to answer your question as to what I'd buy - well, at one point I would've said I'd make a cage that size myself, however after a couple days poring over the construction of a new style of cage [combination wood frame and 3mm Sintra PVCX], I've decided it simply isn't worth the cost and effort. So, I've decided I'm probably going to convert many of my cages over to Reptariums. Yes, Reptariums - those woven nylon mesh cages with zippers for access and a lightweight tubular frame. I've been using two of the 260 gallon Reptariums now for nearly 3 years to house two Taiwan Beauty Snakes and frankly they've worked out great. Humidity is often cited as a reason not to use these cages because being all screen they tend to dry out quickly. However, using a variety of water bowls and an automated misting system has helped me keep these fairly well humidified.

As a further testament, I have never had to assist either of these two snakes in shedding. Heating in winter has not been an issue either as my apartment has steam heat so I seldom have days any cooler than 78 - 75 F. Additionally, I supplement the ambient room temperature with a 120 watt 'white' infra-red basking light. Lighting for plants is provided by a 2 tube 4 ft. fluorescent fixture resting on top of both cages. Except for some binding issues with the zipper and recent problems getting the zipper to keep from separating on one cage I've been very satisfied with how these have worked out for the size and cost [roughly $99.00 with another $20.00 for a vinyl bottom liner]. A recent discussion on this forum where ventilation was mentioned has also had me thinking recently about cage designs with much better through ventilation. Finally, I've experimented off and on with live plants in a variety of cages from aquaria to plywood affairs and by far the plants have done best in the Reptarium cages.

So, I would have to say, taking into account species [I wouldn't house a large monitor or a massive constrictor in one of these], the Reptariums are the best buy for the money. The one caveat is that you have to put some effort into putting together some support systems for them - ie. lighting, heating, and humidification. I'm seriously considering shifting many of my species to these types of cages so that I can create a 'greenhouse' type environment with free air circulation, lots of live plants, and a much more open system of caging.
-----
Matt Campbell
25 years herp keeping experience
Full-time zookeeper
Personal collection - 21 snakes (9 genera), 20 lizards (4 genera), 6 chelonians (2 genera)

BobS Aug 04, 2005 10:47 PM

I have a couple of the 6' Neodeshas and they certainly have their drawbacks like any cage but because I have the elongnated light vent and side vents they are brightly lit with 2 -4' flr fixtures and air circulation is good. The glassed veiwing area is 25" and 32" deep. I keep them on Those 6' folding tables you get at staples and Office Depot. apro. 30" high, just right for maintenance.

Would the larger Visions sag if you only stacked two high? Three at the most? On RLReptiles site they have pics of customers using those commercial grade shelves you see in auto warehouses.( as I have gotten older I don't put cages lower than 24" anymore. They tend to not be taken care of as regularly as those at belt level and above). I once saw somone here say that lights are for you, not for the snakes( not sure I agree) but the dimmer lighting might be good for some applications, like w/o plants

Guess it's all about trade offs. Later

BobS Aug 04, 2005 10:51 PM

Matt, do you mean those snake aren't able to push their way through those screens? That's an interesting option.

Bob.

Matt Campbell Aug 05, 2005 12:03 AM

>>Matt, do you mean those snake aren't able to push their way through those screens? That's an interesting option.

Bob,

No, they can't push through the screen. The nylon mesh they use for the Reptariums is completely unlike any window-type screen you can think of. It's a weird kind of woven thing with strands that go off on all different directions. Just like they advertise, it is very strong stuff - besides, in order for any animal to push it's way out it would have to gain purchase elsewhere in the cage and have something to push off of to try to force the screen apart. Of course what happens in that case is the opposite side of the cage will give in relation. Again, only the very biggest constrictors are unsuitable for this type of cage. The only thing I don't like as much is that the screen gives a somewhat obscured/dimmed view of the occupants of the cage. However, you tend to get used to that and some people have said they think the screen tends to make some snakes and lizards less nervous. I always keep the zippers held together with a binder clip - kind of a hinged split-ring sorta thingie that I can loop through the holes in the zippers and then the teeth on the clip keep it held closed. It's worked like I said for the last 3 years. Oh yeah, I do like the larger Neodeshas, like you're talking about, but even then they still don't have quite enough ventilation to be completely natural. But, then again, snakes were kept for a long time in aquaria before we started getting all of these crazy new plastic cages and what-not.
-----
Matt Campbell
25 years herp keeping experience
Full-time zookeeper
Personal collection - 21 snakes (9 genera), 20 lizards (4 genera), 6 chelonians (2 genera)

BobS Aug 05, 2005 04:30 PM

Thanks Matt. Maybe I'll check those out soon.Yup, Drawbacks with the large Neos like everything else. I'm going to go for two more of the Vision #400 cages tomorrow.4'x26"x14". Wish they were taller, but they have pretty good ventilation and good floor space and lite up nicely for only $200.00. Plus I like that they are sturdy, when not in use you pack the glass away and stack them wherever/however.I have this thing about simplicity. Thanks for the info on the Reptariums. Bob

Bill S. Aug 06, 2005 09:04 PM

Thanks for your reply!

Those screen cages sound great. I think I'd have to create a herp room to use them, though. But it would be a nice thing. Now I have everything in the basement, and that gets pretty cool and dry in the winter (67 degrees) and about 50% humidity even with a Bemis whole-house humidifier running 24/7. I am one of the "forced-hot-air-heat" victims, you see.

To top it off, I use radiant heat panels. They tend to dry out the cages even more because they heat the air.

BUT, you have inspired me to think of my unused bedroom as a herp room and get busy. Thanks!

Bill

markg Aug 03, 2005 07:49 PM

This is probably beating a dead horse since Neo isn't distributing cages at the moment, but here are a list of positives:

1) They had redesigned the door track on the small cages; no more binding.

2) No escapes with baby snakes using their cages.

3) Tempered glass door is strong enough for accidental abuse w/o consequences.

4) Easy to heat either from below or above. Easy to add ventilation.

5) Although stacking is usually considered a good thing, I find it a real pain when you have to service cages or change heating scenarios. I actually prefer shelving in many cirumstances.

What cages do you currently prefer?

-----
Mark G

Animals:
A few Rosy boas, mountain kings, Cal kings and Children's pythons.

Caging:
Visionariums, Herpcages.com, Precision, 5 gal tanks for babies.

BobS Aug 03, 2005 09:24 PM

np

markg Aug 04, 2005 02:53 AM

Interesting animals, but not for rooms that get warm in summer. A friend has this animal now.

BobS Aug 04, 2005 10:43 AM

np

chris_harper2 Aug 04, 2005 12:21 PM

np
-----
Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

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