Reptile & Amphibian Forums

There are two "Central American Indigos" posted for sale in classifieds. They look dark. Any thoughts on subspecies?

If you're referring to the ad from MS Herps, they look an awful lot like black-tails to me. Several of the WC BT cribos that I've seen are kind of dark like that.
Robert

Black-tail Cribos (Drymarchon m. melanurus) are often sold as Central American Indigos.
The two offered by MS certainly appear to be D. m melanurus, but a lot of the imports over the past couple of years appear to be D. m melanurus x D. m unicolor integrates, which leads me to believe collection of these must be occurring where the ranges of the two ssp. overlaps...

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

Agreed. They look like intergrades to me.
Chris

What makes you think that they're intergrades?

Actually, I didn't say the specific specimens offered by MS were integrates. I simply stated the majority of D. m melanurus I have seen imported into the US, as of late, are phenotypic of D. m melanurus x D. m unicolor integrates, as most recent imports tend to harbor mahogany to faded brown posterior coloration, not the “indigo” tail I associate with a true D. m melanurus.

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

If it was the same ad I saw yesterday (I can't find the ad anymore to take a second look) the snakes in the photos appeared to have brown tails...darker than a uni and lighter than what I'm used to seeing in BT's. That's hardly conclusive evidence...just my assumption based on the photos and what I'm used to seeing come in with cribo imports.
They did appear to be in good health for imports though.
Chris

The one in the middle picture looks to me like a really nice Black Tail. The smaller snake looks to be an intergrade or maybe a Black Tail with a not yet fully developed tail. I'm leaning towards intergrade on that one. I almost bought the snake in the middle picture, but the tail wasn't yellow enough!
It is a really nice snake.

Just fyu re. those ´central american cribos, they look just like the ones here in GUatemala where Içve been collecting Pituophis. Guat. has both unicolor and m. melanurus, perhaps with some intergrading, although the two are mostly on opposite coasts.

just my thoughts
Craig

Hey Craig,
Do you happen to take any photos when you're out in the field. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who would love to see some wild cribo shots.
Have you found any on this trip yet?
Chris

I´m not really in Dry habitat here- in mountainous areas 5-6,000 feet looking for Pituophis. Haven´t had much luck so far, although I´ve made some friends who have the snakes in private collections andwill try to bring some home. Between the permits for research, collecting, exporting and importing, it´s an ordeal. I´m a lot happier just turning over logs...

I´ll post some pics on kingsnake of whatever Iget,and also habitat. By the way, both cribos at thezoo here have a mottled look that is part unicolor and part BT. Am on my way today tocribo habitat inthe lowlands (just for a vacation break with my family in the jungles), will hope to see a wild cribo there.

Have you seen Yellow Tail's at all in you travels?