Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all:

Since I can't find a mentor around the Columbus, Ohio area, I pretty much have to try my best to learn the ropes alone (yeah I know, not exactly the best practice, but I have learn somehow). I have a VERY aggressive adult yellow/black rat snake that I keep to practice handling. He is fast and bites readily, and doesnt' particularly care for the hook much. If I dont tail him (and sometimes even if I do) I notice that he "climbs" the hook. He makes his way up towards the handle, and if you dont get him back into the cage quick enough, then "WHACK!".

It's not that I am afraid of being bitten (although I certainly dont mind avoiding it), but I have to start somewhere. Should I use a second hook? Perhaps a smaller hook to help maneuver the snake comfortably without putting yourself much into harms way? Is there any particular tricks that you can do to avoid the snake "climbing" the hook? Has anyone else been faced with this before (I am sure you have) and what did you do to avoid a bad position?

Any ideas or guidance would certainly be appreciated.

Best Wishes,

Chris

For hots that behave that way (mambas and such), a second hook is a must. Better yet is two hooks and a backup somewhere within easy reach in case you simply have to give up one of the hooks.

Unless you're planning to start with elapids (I wouldn't), I personally don't think a rat snake sounds like the right practice. If you're planning to start with vipers, something like a watersnake might be more realistic. They will try to go down, like most vipers, rather than up and will give you practice with the real problem with vipers, which is trying to manage a snake that doesn't even bother trying to hold onto the hook.

Either way, two hooks are a good idea, and good practice. Even when working with a fairly small viper that I would only use one hook to hold, I like to have a second hook in hand for two reasons. 1) You can use it to manage the snake if it starts slipping off the hook. 2) It helps keep you from forgetting and trying to catch the snake with your HAND if it slips off!

Hi Larry,

Thank you for your response, that really helps alot. Looks like I better try to get ahold of another type of snake, huh? I dont necessarily plan to start with elapids, I would actually prefer to start with a copperhead if anything and work my way up from there. So it sound like I need to practice with some other snakes.

Thanks again,

Chris

>>For hots that behave that way (mambas and such), a second hook is a must. Better yet is two hooks and a backup somewhere within easy reach in case you simply have to give up one of the hooks.
>>
>>Unless you're planning to start with elapids (I wouldn't), I personally don't think a rat snake sounds like the right practice. If you're planning to start with vipers, something like a watersnake might be more realistic. They will try to go down, like most vipers, rather than up and will give you practice with the real problem with vipers, which is trying to manage a snake that doesn't even bother trying to hold onto the hook.
>>
>>Either way, two hooks are a good idea, and good practice. Even when working with a fairly small viper that I would only use one hook to hold, I like to have a second hook in hand for two reasons. 1) You can use it to manage the snake if it starts slipping off the hook. 2) It helps keep you from forgetting and trying to catch the snake with your HAND if it slips off!

Chris,

I don't know how busy you are on weeknights, but I am planning on trying something tomorrow evening if you are interested. I can not promise anything, but hopefully we can turn up a copperhead...

Email me. I am going to try and be out there by 5 or 6.

Jason

And this wasn't meant to imply I wanted to collect one. Just that it would be a good chance to take some photos and learn a thing or two.

Jason

Already sent the email- and yes I know you werent implying to collect one. I have never met you but just by speaking to you via email and in the forums have been enough to tell me quite a bit about you.

Thanks again!

Chris

Chris:

Did you contact Mike Jolliff? I think he's in the Columbus Area. Very knowelegable and a great guy too.

Here's one of his ad's

Al
Link

-----
"Fighting on the forums is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded."

DH June 2005

Oh yeah...

I agree with Larry..two hooks is the way to go..

It keeps me from grabbing the snake with my free hand and tailing them.

Al
-----
"Fighting on the forums is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded."

DH June 2005

Hi Al,

Thanks for the response. No I have not contacted him. I actually wasn't familiar with him at all. I will try to contact him and see if he would be willing to help me out in exchange for some cage cleaning or something?? I also hope that hes not IN columbus as they are illegal here, but judging from his area code posted in the link you provided (thanks again!), I dont think so.

I will try giving him a call/email and see what he says.

Thanks again,

Chris

>>Chris:
>>
>>Did you contact Mike Jolliff? I think he's in the Columbus Area. Very knowelegable and a great guy too.
>>
>>Here's one of his ad's
>>
>>Al
>>Link
>>
>>-----
>>"Fighting on the forums is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded."
>>
>>DH June 2005

Chris, I would always recommend using two hooks for fast moving hots; in fact, I will even use two hooks when working with many of my venomous as that is what works best for me (I rely heavily on my midwest arboreal hook). "Tailing" is an effective method but you have to have a LOT of experience and know your animal inside and out; I would never recommend that to beginner venomous owners. Your rat might be good training if you want something like an eyelash viper (a decent venomous snake as a first time hot). For rattlesnakes, a juvie borneo short tailed python might be a good "replica"...or some other terrestrial snake like Lampropeltis. The bottom line is that you must do whatever it takes to avoid being bit....and that usually means reducing the amount of "contact" time with the animal (and, instead, learn to use shields and things like that). In certain cases you have to be ready to drop a hook if they suddenly crawl up a hook and you can't control it (a good reason why you should have an extra hook or two w/in easy reach).

Hope this helps.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>Hello all:
>>
>> Since I can't find a mentor around the Columbus, Ohio area, I pretty much have to try my best to learn the ropes alone (yeah I know, not exactly the best practice, but I have learn somehow). I have a VERY aggressive adult yellow/black rat snake that I keep to practice handling. He is fast and bites readily, and doesnt' particularly care for the hook much. If I dont tail him (and sometimes even if I do) I notice that he "climbs" the hook. He makes his way up towards the handle, and if you dont get him back into the cage quick enough, then "WHACK!".
>>
>> It's not that I am afraid of being bitten (although I certainly dont mind avoiding it), but I have to start somewhere. Should I use a second hook? Perhaps a smaller hook to help maneuver the snake comfortably without putting yourself much into harms way? Is there any particular tricks that you can do to avoid the snake "climbing" the hook? Has anyone else been faced with this before (I am sure you have) and what did you do to avoid a bad position?
>>
>>Any ideas or guidance would certainly be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>Best Wishes,
>>
>>Chris
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Hey Mr. Carmichael,

Been a while since I've seen you in the forums. How was your trip to the International Herp Symposium? Thank you for your reply. I thought about going with an eyelash viper (they are certainly on my "want" list) but was thinking somewhere along the lines of a copperhead, where antivenin isn't that hard to come across and most zoos will have it so I dont have to use the hospitals. I will have to get practice using two hooks. As Larry mentioned I will probably try to get ahold of a water snake or something, that might help me get the hang of it.

Thanks again for the response!

Best Wishes,

Chris

>>Chris, I would always recommend using two hooks for fast moving hots; in fact, I will even use two hooks when working with many of my venomous as that is what works best for me (I rely heavily on my midwest arboreal hook). "Tailing" is an effective method but you have to have a LOT of experience and know your animal inside and out; I would never recommend that to beginner venomous owners. Your rat might be good training if you want something like an eyelash viper (a decent venomous snake as a first time hot). For rattlesnakes, a juvie borneo short tailed python might be a good "replica"...or some other terrestrial snake like Lampropeltis. The bottom line is that you must do whatever it takes to avoid being bit....and that usually means reducing the amount of "contact" time with the animal (and, instead, learn to use shields and things like that). In certain cases you have to be ready to drop a hook if they suddenly crawl up a hook and you can't control it (a good reason why you should have an extra hook or two w/in easy reach).
>>
>>Hope this helps.
>>
>>Rob Carmichael, Curator
>>The Wildlife Discovery Center
>>Lake Forest, IL
>>
>>
>>>>Hello all:
>>>>
>>>> Since I can't find a mentor around the Columbus, Ohio area, I pretty much have to try my best to learn the ropes alone (yeah I know, not exactly the best practice, but I have learn somehow). I have a VERY aggressive adult yellow/black rat snake that I keep to practice handling. He is fast and bites readily, and doesnt' particularly care for the hook much. If I dont tail him (and sometimes even if I do) I notice that he "climbs" the hook. He makes his way up towards the handle, and if you dont get him back into the cage quick enough, then "WHACK!".
>>>>
>>>> It's not that I am afraid of being bitten (although I certainly dont mind avoiding it), but I have to start somewhere. Should I use a second hook? Perhaps a smaller hook to help maneuver the snake comfortably without putting yourself much into harms way? Is there any particular tricks that you can do to avoid the snake "climbing" the hook? Has anyone else been faced with this before (I am sure you have) and what did you do to avoid a bad position?
>>>>
>>>>Any ideas or guidance would certainly be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Best Wishes,
>>>>
>>>>Chris
>>-----
>>Rob Carmichael, Curator
>>The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
>>Lake Forest, IL

I said in my previous post, "....where antivenin isn't that hard to come across and most zoos will have it so I dont have to use the hospitals."

I meant to say, "....wher antivenin isn't that hard to come across and most hospitals will have it so that I dont have to use the zoos."

Sorry it's been a long day and I have no clue what was going through my head.

Chris

Chris, I knew what you were saying the first time so no need to apologize....I know the feeling!

>>I said in my previous post, "....where antivenin isn't that hard to come across and most zoos will have it so I dont have to use the hospitals."
>>
>>I meant to say, "....wher antivenin isn't that hard to come across and most hospitals will have it so that I dont have to use the zoos."
>>
>>Sorry it's been a long day and I have no clue what was going through my head.
>>
>>Chris
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Hey Rob:

How about a few sentences on the IHS conference.

Hope you had a great time!

Al
-----
"Fighting on the forums is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded."

DH June 2005

Thanks for asking Al. I had a terrific time at the IHS. The talks were all excellent (my favorite was a talk about horned lizards and the many challenges that the sonoran desert museum has faced in establishing these animals in captivity). My Sedge Viper talk and Eastern Indigo talk went very well and I had lots of positive feedback (thanks again for the pics...I used two of them!). Dave Barker was the keynote speaker and talked about the history of python breeder which I found quite interesting. Jeff Ettling from St. Louis Zoo gave an incredible talk about a rare viper in Europe (just escaped my old brain!)...of course, I had to follow him! At night, instead of attending some of the social functions, which I am sure were great (lots of beer!), I decided to take the rare opportunity to be in the desert to look for herps. I found my first C. tigris and a few others on my wish list. My pics aren't that great but still a remembrance of my little nightly adventures in the Tucson area....someday I am going to move there (my wife is behind me too!). Take care, Rob

>>Hey Rob:
>>
>>How about a few sentences on the IHS conference.
>>
>>Hope you had a great time!
>>
>>Al
>>-----
>>"Fighting on the forums is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded."
>>
>>DH June 2005
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Hi Rob,
I got to see your Indigo presentation and I really enjoyed it. Unfortunately I missed the viper talk and I didn't get a chance to meet you directly. Congratulations on your hunting finds also. I wasn't so fortunate in my nightly adventures, but then again I didn't travel as far south as Tuscon, something I've been kicking myself for since I returned. I did have a decent night in Searchlight NV on the way home finding my first Desert Night Snake and finding a juv Cal King circling a road kill kangaroo rat about 10 + times as big as the snake. Too bad I don't have some of that fancy night vision stuff that I could have watched what he planned to do with the rat. The picture I got was after I had already scared the snake and he was leaving.