Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have read in pretty much everything about red sided garters that they are only in southern canada but ever since I was interested in reptiles I asked my dad about when he was a kid and what he caught and he would talk about all of these weird colors I have read only exist in other places but then when I go herping I see some of the same colors in fact me and my friend the other day caught a redsided garter and all of these are in southern michigan. I am so confused are all of these texts or what?
(sorry for the no period thing once I get rambling I don't stop)
thanks for responses josh
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1vine snake
2 turtles
1 greek tortoise
1ball python
1 corn snake
1 childrens python
1 het for albino san diego gopher snake
1 sunbeam snake(any help with these guys even when not on a post about them will help thanks)
1 tarantula
some mice
and what ever lizards my vine snake hasn't eaten yet

I am not sure exactly what you are asking. The Red-Sided Garter Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis has a wide distribution. It ranges from N Texas up into Canada and as far west as Montana. It is not found in Michigan. There are three members of the genus Thamnophis found in Michigan. These are the Eastern Garter T sirtalis sirtalis, Butler's Garter T butleri and the N Ribbon Snake T sauritus septentrionalis. The Eastern is a close relative of the Red-Sided (same species) and this is probably what you are seeing. Easterns can be geographically variable in their appearance going from drab in some areas to quite striking in others. They have red in some locations but I am not sure about Michigan. Easterns from southern Quebec can be erythristic (high amount of red). These are known as "Flame" Garters. This morph has been bred in captivity to emphasize this trait and they are quite beautiful. These might be the snakes that gave you the impression that "Red-Sided" Garters are only found in S Canada thus causing your confusion.
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Randy Hallman

I have read in actuall articles mostly older materials that all red sided garters are in southern canada I didn't know they went to texas. I am still confused I know that the eastern garters are the one that carries the genes for these patterns. But I am telling you I have found red sided garters in southern michigan infact one is currently in my care wc from michigan it is my friends but I am taking care of it. maybe I'll figure out how to post pix.
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1vine snake
2 turtles
1 greek tortoise
1ball python
1 corn snake
1 childrens python
1 het for albino san diego gopher snake
1 sunbeam snake(any help with these guys even when not on a post about them will help thanks)
1 tarantula
some mice
and what ever lizards my vine snake hasn't eaten yet

There are eastern that have red in the same places as red sides.They mostly come from the great lakes area.A pic would definitely help.

The Red-Sided Garter T s parietalis and the Eastern Garter T s sirtalis are both subspecies of the common Garter Snake Thamnophis sirtalis. There are currently 11 recognized subspecies of this snake. 4 of these subspecies do range into Canada but none are predominantly found there. There are no species or subspecies of Garter Snakes found exclusively in Canada. The “Flame” Garters found in S Ontario are a morph of the Eastern Garter and not a recognized subspecies or species. More than half of the range of the Red-Sided Garter is in the United States.

I do not know what articles you are referring to but I believe you misunderstood them in terms of what they were classifying. It might be that the article was referring to a particular part of Canada where the only Garter Snake found is the Red-Sided. Perhaps the article was about the communal hibernation of Red-Sided Garters in S Canada. It is hard to imagine any article being so much in error it listed the range of the Red-Sided Garters as only being in Canada. I believe there is actually a location for this subspecies in Mexico.

I am confidant you have an Eastern Garter. The snake taxonomically classified as the Red-Sided Garter Snake is not found in Michigan. Eastern Garters may have red in their side coloration but they are not Red-Sided Garters. If you found a T s parietalis in Michigan it would have escaped from someone. Here is a web site I found that lists the snakes found in Michigan.

http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Reserve/7416/mi.html
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Randy Hallman

so they can have red without being red sided?
I did take pix but I would have to scan them I have figured out how to get pix into the photo gallery what do I do from there to get the photos in my post?
-----
1vine snake
2 turtles
1 greek tortoise
1ball python
1 corn snake
1 childrens python
1 het for albino san diego gopher snake
1 sunbeam snake(any help with these guys even when not on a post about them will help thanks)
1 tarantula
some mice
and what ever lizards my vine snake hasn't eaten yet

Yes, there are flame and erythristic easterns that have red coloring. It's not unusual...there are western terrestrials that have red coloring also.....