Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm curious...why are female spiders less than males? In pastels, mojaves, albinos, cinnys, etc. the females usually tend to run more $$$. Someone educate this poor dumb herper.

Thanks,

Tim

a female can only have one clutch at a time.

I think it's mostly because there is no "super" therefore there is less need for a female spider as someone else pointed out males can produce several clutchs - females only one - no super form no great need unless you are producing homo spiders.
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Tosha

"One of these days i am going to wake up..look around...and realize my place looks more like "Ace Venturas"s than my own." Coldthumb

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope John Paul "JP"
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 lizard rescued from vicious feline

The spider is a co-dominant gene. You can breed a male spider to a normal female and still produce spiders.....Breed 1 male spider to 5 normal females and get a few baby spiders...same goes for pastels.....That is also why there is no hets for pastel or spider!!! any normals hatched from these clutches are just normals. That is why the male spider costs a little more............Jason

that's true but i think Tosha is more correct. You can do the same thing with a pastel and produce pastels from normal females just like the spider. But the pastel females are more then the pastel males.

Like Tosha said, there is no super form like there is with pastels. I think that's the main reason.
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Mandi

1.1 Albino Ball Pythons
2.0 Cats

>
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Actually regular pastels and spiders are the hets, they just aren't normal looking hets like with recessive hets.

Also, I don't think spider has been proven co-dominant. At least if a homozygous spider has been produced yet I'm not hearing what it is like (it would have to be different than the heterozygous spiders to be co-dominant). By the same token I haven't heard information proving that spider is completely dominant either. The lack of information on a homozygous spider is glaring at this point.

noone......

and I know of one that acted like a super this year......

so maybe there are supers........?

if so...females will jump up...and poss poss supers will jump too...

.........
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.........dog will hunt.......dog will hunt............

If I remember correctly - NERD bred them out for a couple of generations - there was no super and genotype wise they couldn't prove positive that the homo only produced spiders over a couple of generations - then they decided to drop the project and move on.

I could be off but I remember reading that in a previous discussion or seven about this subject.
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Tosha

"One of these days i am going to wake up..look around...and realize my place looks more like "Ace Venturas"s than my own." Coldthumb

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope John Paul "JP"
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 lizard rescued from vicious feline

OK.I'll tell that guy that made 100% spiders from his one male that it was a fluke and he should feel really really lucky....

? or maybe tell Nerd he missed?.....

........guess we really don't know...........
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.........dog will hunt.......dog will hunt............

First of all - there is no need to get into a pissing match - not my intention

Second - I guess I'm not wrong in assuming that there is a difference between a super and a homo - I was under the impression that super had to do with phenotype and homo with genotype - course terminology is not my strongest subject.

Third - Congratulations to that one guy who can consistantly make spiders from his homo (seems like in 5 years there should be more than one, but what do I know - nothing).

Oh well - I guess I've been wrong before won't kill me to be wrong again.
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Tosha

"One of these days i am going to wake up..look around...and realize my place looks more like "Ace Venturas"s than my own." Coldthumb

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope John Paul "JP"
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 lizard rescued from vicious feline

sounds like I'm not the one pissin in the cheerios......
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.........dog will hunt.......dog will hunt............

a homozygous spider is indistinguishable from a heterozygous spider therefore there is no "super spider". Like Tosha said the super reference is to phenotype. Youre friend has a homozygous spider or he got lucky, there is no way to conclusively looking at his snake say that yes it is a homozygous spider, therefore no super. I've known people who bred pastel to normal and gotten all pastels doesn't mean they have a super pastel, it is still only carrying one gene for it, just luck. If he does it consistently with his spider then you could guess that it is a homo spider but still no way of knowing for certain.
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Nita Hamilton
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Ball Pythons

wow...thanx for telling me nothing I don't already know?????????

HUH?

.........

actually there are alot of ugly super pastels out there that were mistakenly sold for regular pastels too......

........really........people don't always know what they ahve

and yea......whatever.......

oh........and this guy isn't really my friend......just a snake dude I know kinda.....LOL..........right........(he's in here).........
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........don't you Luv that a few weeks ago they ask all the starter questions and a few weeks later they know it all?.............gotta Luv the internet huh?.........

Kevin as far as I know has not bred spider x spider more than a couple times up to this season. If I remember our conversation correctly there were alot of bad eggs and slugs in those 2 or 3 tries. I also have seen an animal that may represent a super and am just waiting to see what comes from breeding him back to normal females. Most breeders feel crossing the spider is more worth there efforts then trying to prove a super spider.

Mike

It does seem that spiders are just the opposite of pastels. Males are usually cheaper and less valuable than females. Although female pastels have really come down this year.

From What I have seen Pastel females have not come down much at all this year. 1300-1500 was pretty much the range last year, maybe a little more. I may be wrong though.

I think alot it has to do with producing Bumblebees .You can buy 5 female pastels alot cheaper than 5 spider females and you only need 1 male spider which only costs $500-$1000 more than a female.Jeremy

There is no super form so if you have a female she can only be bred to 1 male whereas a male can be paired up with 10 females. With the other morphs you mention they are co dom so to get a super form you NEED a female, therefore females are more expensive.
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Nita Hamilton
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Ball Pythons

The confusing part is in the exceptions to the rule. Generally the females are more expensive in codominant and simple recessive animals for the reasons previously stated. However, the Piebald females are generally less expensive than the males. Why? I have absolutely no idea. They should cost a bit more...IMNSHO.

Chris
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mean people suck

I think for pieds you need to think more on a het level - female hets way more expensive than males. A pied male can make several het females that will produce more in the long run than raising a pair of pieds and then breeding to the one female and getting one clutch. And along the way your male keeps on making you money.
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Tosha

"One of these days i am going to wake up..look around...and realize my place looks more like "Ace Venturas"s than my own." Coldthumb

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope John Paul "JP"
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 lizard rescued from vicious feline

Yes, but why does this apply only to the Piebald morph? There are plenty of less/more expensive simple recessives that do not follow the same pricing theory.

Chris
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mean people suck

Simple,because its the most sought after morph..that is,by those that mean to produce their own from breeding hets.

Everyone wants a pied...
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

I agree on the reason...just not the reasoning. The more popular morphs could easily demand more money.

Of course, I'm not complaining.

Chris
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mean people suck

Just like all the possible het pieds for sale early on pointed to a then secrete marker the unusual gender pricing of spiders and pieds probably points to something we aren't being told about homozygous spiders and homozygous piebald females.

I'm always up for a good conspiracy theory! Rock on!

Chris
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mean people suck

Heres my half coherant thought on that - pieds are stuck in a wierd price zone - they are a little too expensive for the average joe - unlike the albino which the devoted average joe can buy - now alot of people that can pay for pieds buy to breed or at least want to make thier money back - and you make more money quicker with the male than the female. And there is less to be made of a course of time with the pieds than with say a stripe or clown. (I know "dont tell PK that" - but you get my meaning).

Of course I could be wrong.
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Tosha

"One of these days i am going to wake up..look around...and realize my place looks more like "Ace Venturas"s than my own." Coldthumb

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope John Paul "JP"
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 lizard rescued from vicious feline

To answer the question below, is simple acually. Pieds have a tendancy to grow slowly starting aroun 700 -900 grams. This is no problem for males, but if you own a female well it would just suck if she took 1-2 yrs to go from 800 grams to 1500 grams. Hets do not have this problem, so most people will jsut use the hets. I have a piebald female that is around 500 and still growing great so we shall see... but i will mostly use hets too.

"The confusing part is in the exceptions to the rule. Generally the females are more expensive in codominant and simple recessive animals for the reasons previously stated. However, the Piebald females are generally less expensive than the males. Why? I have absolutely no idea. They should cost a bit more...IMNSHO.

Chris"
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Thanks
Jon Dvoretz
Next World Exotics
www.nextworldexotics.com

The Hunters Guide to the Morphs
www.nextworldexotics.com/hg.htm

I don't know... I've heard more than one person dispell the rumor of slow growth in Piebalds. I have a very hard time believing that the price difference is because of rumored slow growth. (No offense.)

Chris
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mean people suck