Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, ive just set up a new satanic cage, and was looking for critical opinions to know what im doin right and wrong. and what i should do to correct my set up. I want the best suited setup i can do for my satanics.

P.s. sorry if u saw the double post...was in the wrong forum

well, how many are you housing in there? all i can see is one. if you're going for more than that and anticipate trying to breed them, i'd take the plastic plant out and put a ficus in instead, and add some stuff about the bottom of the cage (leaf litter, bark chunks, rocks, etc. keeping satanics in a 10 gal is a minimum, in my opinion, and i only really keep pairs to trios of young ones in small setups like that. moving to a larger terrarium/vivarium opens up the possibilities of what you can do for your animals/with the tank. that way you can have some areas with really dense foliage, bare ground spots, spots with leaf litter, hides, bark slabs, branches, and open "jump-around" space.
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-Mike Martin
North Carolina

there is only 1 female in there currently, plan to just have a pair in there

why do u sugguest removing the fake plant for breedings? and by bark chunks do u mean like repti bark stuff? where do i find leaf litter?

In the future i plan to get a large cube tank...but as i plan to only have a 2 right now...im just gonna keep the ten or use my empty 20 long in a month or so whe i get the male and quarantine him

well, i just really recommend taking the fake plant out if you plan on adding anything else. even though i dont consider satanics as the biggest jumpers, i dont like to keep the cage so dense that all they can do is creep around through the foliage. i am also biased towards live plants just because thats what i've always used, and they fill in the voids after some time.
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-Mike Martin
North Carolina

Live plants help to actually keep the humidity up and and also help keep the flow of fresh air. if your tank is set up right it could also help with over health of your geckos. I keep my satanics both ways. I see a big difference in my animals kept on live plants in comparison to on fake. I have better production out of my live plants cages. But that may be contributed to the animals being better producers at the moment. Don't limit yourself to what you keep your geckos on. Think like a gecko and it'll make more sense. Thats what I do. It sounds stupid but it really works. Get some photos of other people tanks and of where they come from in the wild. You'll start to see the differences quickly.

-b.jason

BTW mike... don't you owe me some oak leaves...

dont i owe you a lil more than oak leaves?

takin this to email!
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-Mike Martin
North Carolina

lol

first off, it's too small and since the Up's like verticle tanks
better you might consider getting a taller tank or better yet,
a reptile enclosure - i'm sure though it's about cost.

secondly, Up's from my experiences don't like rough bark as much as they do smooth bark. switch out that rubber vine stuff for some twigs and such that are pencil size; /- 1/8". ficus, mantanita, cherry, apple and maple work.

also, you need plants. live plants. cissus, peperomia, selaginella, ferns...creeping ferns are cool! aroids are great if you have room but over all, go with a clean floor area, a few ferns, one creeping vining plant and some good branches.
i'd suggest tree fern panel sealed very well to the back of the tank and growing vines in it.

toss some leafs on the floor of the cage and try to learn more about the natural habitat in which these cool geckos come from.

they don't really get much direct light so don't go over board with that. if you don't plant a ficus tree in the tank, use ONE flourescent bulb but no compacts.too much light with those.

also, a ten gallon i feel is bad as you can't get the air moving in it. you need air to flow through the enclosure; Naturalistic vivariums (google it), so that things like over saturated soils, molds, stail air don't compromise your pets health. i would go with a half screen top and screen side panels...some one makes those but i can't remember who...oceanic or something.

good luck and if you can get a book on uroplatus do so. there are a few copies left i hear.
plants

ok so what size of a tank should i have for about 2-3 Satanics?

i would suggest something taller. a twenty tall would be okay.
but i would use something that has a opening front as well, with a size of at least 16"W x 12"D x 20" tall.

we have a few in stock but you could make your own or something too. I only suggest that your enclosure have both top and side air vents, screen or something. just be sure it's tall, has ventilation and your foot print is no smaller then 1 sq ft.

i was rading up on the satanics...late last night i swore i came across a web page talking about how they live in low bush so it is best to give them a longer cage.

If you read the Reptiles article by neil or the book by sacha and susanna you'll find that even though they like the low bush area, their still considered aboreal and to that, yes length is good but the taller the more climbing room you can offer.

i would go with something that offers more air flow as well. oceanic offers a 30" long lizard lounge that works good for a 1.2 or .3 but i'm learning not a 2.anything...LOL. but as always, ask a breeder...you might gleam a lot from one!
i suggest this tank or one like it.

actually for Uroplatus phantasticus 2.whatever works well. Mike and I have both had great success with 3.3 and 2.2 groupings respectively. I personally like 1.1's for everything but with satanics they tend to need the extra push to get breeding. Now with fimbs and lineatus you don't want 2.whatevers you want 1.1 because they are both too dominant species.

but 2.2 phants works well for success.

jason

I should have said Mike from North Carolina. mike in houston is still waiting for his to breed.

b.jason

well, just think of a bush. many bushes are taller than just a foot. so basically you're still gonna want something tall(er).
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-Mike Martin
North Carolina

I'm just curious, since I will have two sikorae in a 20 tall, if that is an acceptable cage size for them???

I know sikorae are larger than phants, and it makes sense that they would need more space than the phants. This thread just brought up some questions, and I figured I better find out before I get my new male!!

Thanks all!!

an acquiantance of mine houses his pair of U.sikorae sameiti in a cage 4 ft long x 1.5 deep and 1.5 tall. He's had great success with them overall too.

-b.jason

20"W x 20"L x 40"H is what i've read and it makes sense. this one likes tree trunks and such, there for the taller is best.

it's a hard thing to describe but aboreal herps need heigth. of course i can raise prehensile skinks in long short tanks but i won't because i'm able to either get what the animals needs or not get the animal. like my life, i won't settle for second best when creating a vivarium and housing a species.

some only have access to a 90 gallon fish tank, but they still get the largest day geckos and keep then just fine. i wouldn't though. i'd build one from an old wardrobe closet if i had to, because i'm in to building naturalistic vivariums that re-create that actual habitat for the species i'm planning to house. i guess that is my philosophy only as i see many trying to cram 5 dart frogs into a twenty gallon or three crested geckos in a 30...up to you. i firmly believe though that if you can't afford the right habitat - enclosure, then don't buy the animal.

I absolutely agree, and what I read before I got them (I researched for 2 weeks, I swear... definately not enough though) said that my tank would be fine for a pair... But now that I'm getting information from people who actually own and breed them, I'm finding out new information. I really want to do right by my pets, so whatever I need to change, I will. I have a month before my second gecko arrives, dependent on the weather.

Say I just got a check for my birthday and wanted to blow it all on a new cage, something I could get a pair to breed in, (someday, maybe, if I'm lucky) what would you recommend? I'm not exactly handy, so anything involving woodworking is out of the question. I'm willing to be creative though...

Sikorae ssp are inquisitive animals. Take a 60 gallon tank and house 1.1 sikorae in it and see what they do. The take another pair and flip another 60 gal vertically and see what they do. Take notes and compare the two cages. You would be surprised.

Just because you read it some where does not make it true. One paper said Uroplatus gex are not aggressive toward each other. That doesn't explain why my lineatus battle over females or why umop's satanics battle over females. Don't challenge my reply because it doesn't jive with a book or paper. Challenge it if I'm telling you lick your geckos to get them to breed but don't challenge me when I post about a successful experience.

-b.jason

he's totally right. i've seen U.p. act on smooth branches differently then on rough branches but the books say cork
is good. ask a breeder but i would still go taller with any aboreal animal.

sample tank new thread please...LOL

Hahaha... when it comes to vets, I might disagree with you, but only because its the ONLY thing I might even come close to knowing as much as you do about... and even then I'm a lowly student, and (when I'm off my soapbox) I know it...

Second of all, If I agree with you, it would be really rather silly to argue about it. It doesn't take a genius to realize that if my one sikorae uses every square inch of my tank, then two aren't going to fit. Its been in the back of my mind for a while now, and it took this conversation to make me realize I needed to do something about it.

ANYwho... Since I don't have a 60 gallon on hand to setup, flip, and resetup (I'd probably break the thing trying) I'm going to assume that they'll be curious and extremely active in the new housing?

I've spent the past 2 hours since I posted doing some looking around, and I want to know what you think of the reptariums that the chameleon people love so much, and if I were to get one, how in the world do I keep the humidity up???

if you're talking about those screen cages for chameleons, i would say try to get in touch with leah, if not thru here try out her website www.wildeyereptiles.com

she keeps several of her uroplatus in screened enclosured, and we've talked on here about the humidity issue before, and some of us believe it is something that is over-emphasized. while they do need decent relative humidity, it is not required to have it in the 90 % range constantly. mist often and they should be fine. but once again, contact leah and check out her perspective on that.
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-Mike Martin
North Carolina

I'm already misting 3-4 times a day... If thats enough water, then maybe these would be my best bet. I've always wanted a cage big enough for a ficus tree, maybe I can get one now.

I already heard from Leah on the other board, and she says they need a misting system, otherwise they're a waste of money. I've seen some neat jury-rigged humidifiers on the chameleon forums, I wonder if that would work?

http://www.reptileforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23011

i guess you finally found out the secret of how i get my uros to breed. a lil lickin gets em tickin.

haha, ok serious again though...yes although aggression isnt common in these guys i would definitely say it's there. from what ive seen so far, it's nothing life-threatening, although i have seen a few minor battle scars. in fact, just the other night i found one of my favorite males in my 3.3 group being dragged by another because he had chomped down on his leg. it's not too tough to get them off of one another though, and when i find the battle wounds actually seem the least bit threatening, i throw on some neosporin and separate the male to let him get better. i've also seen my LTC corkbark chase after my newer corkbark male i got a couple months ago. asserting dominance, for sure, but not making death threats.

i incorrectly sexed an adult male giant day gecko somewhat recently, and after about 2 week of being house with a male ive had a bit longer, i realized he had a chunk missing from his side. luckily those guys are meaty and normally duke it out, so he too has been separated to have time for some healing.
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-Mike Martin
North Carolina

Well I am no Uroplatus phantasticus person but from my experiences with Uroplatus pietschmanni and the reading I have done on Uroplatus phantasticus I would say your cage size is ok although you might want to go for a taller cage. I know Neil Meister, one of the most renowned Uroplatus breeders, keeps pairs and trios of phantasticus in 10 gallons and has had success breeding them. I personally have kept U. pietschmanni, which is a much larger species, in 10 gallon long aquariums for months on end in which they thrived and did very well.
-Matt
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www.madagascarherp.com

I'm more willing to say that neil keeps pairs/trios of phants in 15 gal. tall tanks (March 04 vol.12 #3 issue of reptiles magazine). Which is not far off from what Devin is saying. Although devin's is slightly larger I believe.

-b.jason

Thanks, and yes, mine is larger. i don't measure too often gallons as i work with sq feet and inches but our most common
aboreal tank is 24 tall, 14" W x 14" D. i did build tonight five ten gallon verts, shown link below that might be good for a 1.1 or 1.2 but would be pushing i think from what i noted in my observations in various sized enclosures.

I think in the wild their range is like 4 meters squared but i could be wrong. i belive if you can afford something a bit bigger
both economically and space wise, then you should offer your pets the upgrade. besides, watching the chase scene is fun...8-)
ten gallon vert...