Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I took some cichlids into a pet store today, and they had a full grown ornate boxie. It was in a 10 gallon tank with dirt substrate and a food dish filled with little multicolored pellets. The water dish was very small and not nearly big enough for it to soak in if it wanted to. It wasn't moving around at all, and even when I asked to handle it, it moved its legs a bit but only halfheartedly. Its eyes looked a little puffy and its shell/scales were very dull. They were asking $59 for it!! I felt really bad for it. I asked if they would go any lower on the price, and they said they might, depending on how fast my fish sell.

Can I do anything for the poor thing?? Or would it possibly bring diseases home to my turtle?

Emily

As soon as you do they'll take your $59 and buy another diseased, maltreated turtle with it, hoping that they can make a profit on it too. It's very sad, but individual animals sometimes have to suffer for pet stores to realize that selilng crap isn't profitable.
If you tell them its near death and they offer to give it to you for free or a very small sum, by all means try to rescue it. Just don't let it anywhere near other reptiles you own.

I think you are right... that does make sense. Do you really think it is near dying? I don't know how to present that to these people without sounding rude. The fish and other animals are very well taken care of, but the herps are the ones that aren't being cared for properly. They had a Uromastyx, leopard geckos, and a few others which were being fed the little colored pellets. There was a mid-sized painted turtle in a 10 gallon tank which it could hardly swim in. I tried to act knowledgable so they might take advice from me, but I think they just saw me as "some dumb kid". I will be leaving for college next fall (taking my herps with me) but I look like I am 14! I even suggested that they take a look at Kingsnake.com but they seemed uninterested. I feel like this is a hopeless situation...

Emily

Unfortuately you probably know more about box turtles than I do. I know in water turtles puffy eyes could be a vitamin deficiency. Underweight-ness could be just bad nutrition and/or a parasite infection. It was probably only recently taken from the wild. It's probably endured bad conditions before it even got to the store. I'm sure it would cost you at least some money in vet bills to get the turtle back to health.
What part of Ohio are you in? I'm in Columbus, and I can't count the number of sick herps in petstores in this area... kinda turns your stomach.

It almost looked like it was hard for her to move her eyes, like they were so puffy they couldnt even focus or something.

I am in the northeastern part of the state, near Youngstown. If you don't know where Youngstown is, we are south of Cleveland. I agree that the way reptiles/amphibians are treated in some pet stores is sickening. I wish there could be something done about it! But like another poster said, you can't just go around rescuing all the animals -- that only encourages the store to buy more stock and the circle continues. Very sad.
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Emily

I'd tell them that its going to die if its conditions don't improve and ask them how much they'll pay you to save its life.

Seriously, some will tell you not to buy it, with good reason.
On the other hand I can't fault someone for wanting to rescue an animal from a situation like that. I think you have to do what you feel is right.

If you do get it, I'd push for a price reduction, pointing out that the animal is not healthy and not well cared for.

>>
>>I'd tell them that its going to die if its conditions don't improve and ask them how much they'll pay you to save its life.
>>
>> Seriously, some will tell you not to buy it, with good reason.
>>On the other hand I can't fault someone for wanting to rescue an animal from a situation like that. I think you have to do what you feel is right.
>>
>>If you do get it, I'd push for a price reduction, pointing out that the animal is not healthy and not well cared for.

How much would you pay?

And how involved would it be to nurse this thing back to health?

It seems like it is underweight, undernourished, and its eyes are puffy. I don't think it has any diseases, but is a victim of poor care. I never thought of myself as a "perfect" caretaker for my boxie -- but when I handled this poor thing, it just made me really appreciate my own turtle's good health and personality.

Is there any specific problem the puffy eyes might be caused by? I would like to offer them some professional sounding information to get rid of the "dumb kid" image they may have of me because of how young I look... if that makes any sense at all!

Even if I can't get the price down, I would at least like to leave them withthe thought that maybe they should re-evaluate their herp care practices.
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Emily

I would hope they would at least give you half off, but thats probably not realistic.

You might not need to take it to the vet, especially if the eyes are still open. I had 4 turtles come down with a respiratory infection in early June. 3 of the 4 were not good about eating the fruits and veggies. These turtles who were in an outdoor pen got where their eyes were swollen, and their noses were bubbly, at least a couple got where they weren't opening up their eyes. I put them in the house in a very large rubbermaid tub I have. I put a 50 watt bulb in a reflector over one side of the tub and I had a large reptile heat pad that covered maybe 1/3 of the tub, under the tub.

I kept two water bowls in the tub and made sure each got at least two lengthy soaks in room temperature water, a day.
Then I started force feeding them baby food (gerbers chicken, with a few drops of cod liver oil(vitamin A) and reptile vitamins mixed in). At the beginning of treatment, I also soaked them in pedialite and mixed a little pedialite in with the chicken.
Some people tube feed (get a feeding tube down the esophogus). I've never felt comfortable doing this (would like a vet to show me how sometime) so I gently pry their mouths open with a large paper clip and squirt some of the mixture in their mouths. In my experience that they almost always swallow it, although I make sure I give them plenty of time between bites.

All 4 turtles fully recovered within 2-3 weeks and all have improved somewhat in the eating of fruits and vegatables.

This turtle you are talking about doesn't seem to be as bad as mine were, but if his conditions don't improve, he will get worse. We have a pet store in OKC that I used to consider pretty good, the only animals I've seen that I thought were seriously mistreated were box turtles, and I had never seen them have box turtles until fairly recently. I don't know why pet stores in general seem to be so careless with box turtles. In all cases I've seen, they didn't have adequate water.

Well keep us posted. The others make good points about not buying him, but you've got to do what you feel is right.
Maybe, if nothing else, you can get them to take better care of him.

I would hope they would at least give you half off, but thats probably not realistic.

You might not need to take it to the vet, especially if the eyes are still open. I had 4 turtles come down with a respiratory infection in early June. 3 of the 4 were not good about eating the fruits and veggies. These turtles who were in an outdoor pen got where their eyes were swollen, and their noses were bubbly, at least a couple got where they weren't opening up their eyes. I put them in the house in a very large rubbermaid tub I have. I put a 50 watt bulb in a reflector over one side of the tub and I had a large reptile heat pad that covered maybe 1/3 of the tub, under the tub.

I kept two water bowls in the tub and made sure each got at least two lengthy soaks in room temperature water, a day.
Then I started force feeding them baby food (gerbers chicken, with a few drops of cod liver oil(vitamin A) and reptile vitamins mixed in). At the beginning of treatment, I also soaked them in pedialite and mixed a little pedialite in with the chicken.
Some people tube feed (get a feeding tube down the esophogus). I've never felt comfortable doing this (would like a vet to show me how sometime) so I gently pry their mouths open with a large paper clip and squirt some of the mixture in their mouths. In my experience that they almost always swallow it, although I make sure I give them plenty of time between bites.

All 4 turtles fully recovered within 2-3 weeks and all have improved somewhat in the eating of fruits and vegatables.

This turtle you are talking about doesn't seem to be as bad as mine were, but if his conditions don't improve, he will get worse. We have a pet store in OKC that I used to consider pretty good, the only animals I've seen that I thought were seriously mistreated were box turtles, and I had never seen them have box turtles until fairly recently. I don't know why pet stores in general seem to be so careless with box turtles. In all cases I've seen, they didn't have adequate water.

Well keep us posted. The others make good points about not buying him, but you've got to do what you feel is right.
Maybe, if nothing else, you can get them to take better care of him.

This might sound weird .. but maybe if you went in and acted a little bompus .. and looked at the turle and when an employee comes over and asks .. if you need anything .. tell them while looking straight into their eyes .. " you do know that turtle is dying " act very upset about it .. then when they ask you what you mean .. tell them .. or if they ask you if you would like to buy it .. look at them like they have lost their minds .. and tell them you would take it home for free and try to get it back to health but you doubt it would make it as bad of shape its in ..

i know im sneaky .. but that way you dont seem rude .. you seem like a very concerned animal person .. expecially if you have turtles already then that will add to your acredibility

*G* Good Luck !!!

I spent over 11 yrs in the pet industry. My advice would be let it be. Here is why. First of all If it is as bad as you say, it will not make it anyway, or your vet bill will be higher then the bill for the turtle itself. Second you risk bringing something home with it that will infect your other herps. Third, if they havn't taken care of it to this point then it is simply inventory to them, and nothing you can say will make them feal diffrent. Finaly leaving it there will hit thier pocket book.
You said you took in some chiclids. Does that mean you have a working relationship with them? If yes, print of a good care sheet and take it with you to the store. Ask for the person you deal with and explain that you are concernded for the boxies life. So him what the could do more correctly (not wrong as independent retails never want to be told they are wrong)! This will also add validity to your claims and personal worth to them. If aproached correctly you may find him offering the boxie to you. I mean if it is going to die anyway why not give it to someone with half a chance at saving it. You may even find him offering you a job, as good caring people are hard to find.