Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So can someone tell me about how people "make" their snakes stay small, by keeping them in smaller enclosures?
Doesn't this affect their organs? I work at a petstore and a customer came in looking for a snake he could keep at 5-6 ft by keeping it in a small enclosure. I told him it would still keep growing, but he kept going on about how a friend of his kept a snake small. I was upset so I had a coworker deal with it.

So is it true that you can keep them small? I have read, and maybe this may only apply to some other reptiles, that regardless of the size of the cage, it's not going to stop growing.
But doesn't it still affect internal growth?
I don't understand how some people can be like this and treat their animals a certain way just so they can look the way the owner wants it to.
Working at a petstore is hard because I come across so many ignorant and uncaring people who I know will be getting rid of the reptile they buy once they get tired of it or once they get big. It's sickening how some people think and act. Im looking for another job because working and dealing with people who treat their animals this way is too much for me.

The only way animals that can be kept small in the manner you've heard of is to essentially provide substandard care. If you feed something only enough to keep it alive that will stunt its growth. Also keeping temps cooler than appropriate can have deleterious effects as well. Most of all these animals will suffer and the signs will usually be internal, except in the cases of some which will show outwards signs of ailments like metabolic bone disease - curvature of the spine, limb fractures from poor bone density, etc. So, to answer your question, yes to a certain extent an animal can be limited to a certain size, but it is not beneficial, it is cruel and most often ultimately fatal to the animal. People who want an animal and can't or won't properly house are only fit to take care of a pet rock.
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Matt Campbell
25 years herp keeping experience
Full-time zookeeper
Personal collection - 21 snakes (9 genera), 20 lizards (4 genera), 6 chelonians (2 genera)

when an ignorant person enters a pet store you should give them a rock or gold fish and tell them if they can let it live for at least five years and give it lots of affection then maybe they can upgrade to a rock tied to a picture of a snake.
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my addiction:
2 ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
1 amelenistic corn snake (maizy

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok that myth is so old even I heard it as a kid.

There is no way you can limit artificially the size of any land animal short of genetic manipulation.

Starving will slow growth but it will also shorten the life of the animal.

How it started....

Some idiot walked into an aquarium shop and bought a goldfish. When concerned about potntial size the shop person said, "Don't worry, the fish will grow to the size the bowl allows."

The idiot tells all his friends that that is how to keep your pets from getting big.

THE TRUTH.....

Simply put, Fish live in their own world, that is, the aquarium. Water is their atmosphere and because of this limitation a fish will grow to the size of their aquarium.

Land animals breathe the same air as us so there is no limiting factor (limit their oxygen and they smother). The catabalic (aging) process in snakes takes over near the very end of their lives so potentially they grow till then.

As said above...If you can't handle what it will be...Don't Keep it.....

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Feeding has alot to do with growth. Even though most reptiles continue to grow through out their lives, they do most of their growing in the first few years. A burmese python can grow to 6-9 feet in its first year and to 12-16 by it's second. Yet, these snakes are often underfed and stunted. Some people believe that if you grow a snake too fast that it shortens it's life span. I think that for every creature, including humans, optimal nutrion is important during the growing years, and once mature, dietary intake has to be reduced. Basically it's not growth thats bad, but fat, at any age. Fish are stunted by a build up of nitrates in the water, a by product of their waste. The larger the body of water the more diluted the nitrates are, the bigger they get. This can also be achieved by frequent water changes.

I've thought about going to school to work in a zoo, or possibly open up a reptile exhibit of some sort on my own, but im not seeing dollar signs anywhere i look. I would enjoy working with reptiles for a living, but i need the money to support a family too. So my question is how much school does it take for a reasonable positon at a zoo and how easy is it to find a job? also, does it pay enough to support yourself and a family? I would love to work with animals full time, but if the money and work i have to put into it isnt worth it in the end, then i need to forget about it. thank you.

Well, being a zoo keeper is definetely a labor of love. I can tell you that with few exceptions you will not be paid well. Fortunately I work for a zoo in Chicago and we get paid fairly well - but considering the cost of living in Chicago the pay isn't that great. Also, we are union keepers [SEIU Local 73], so that helps out somewhat in the wages department and job security to a certain extent. However, many zoos are non-union and wages can be very low.

As an example I saw an advertisement for employment at a facility in Kentucky that works with many very dangerous venomous species. They were looking for a full-time keeper to work with the animals on a daily basis for $8.00/hr. I'm not sure how far that goes in Kentucky, but having worked in Chicago for about that wage before going to work for the zoo, I can tell you around her it gets you pretty much at the poverty level.

Now, with all the dire money stuff explained, I'd have to say that I'm not the sole supporter in my house - my fiance works full-time as well, although she makes a lot less than I do per month - but, overall we live fairly comfortably. As for how one gets into being a zoo keeper, it starts mostly with an educational background heavy in life sciences. Biology or Zoology if you're lucky enough to find a university with a zoo major.

Again though, many of the courses you'd take in a Bio or Zoo degree have little bearing on what you do as a zoo keeper. Just as important as the education is some kind of verifiable professional experience, be it as an intern at a zoo, or vet hospital, university research lab, etc. Basically anywhere that you can get hands-on experience working directly with exotics will go a long ways towards getting your foot in the door at a zoo.

Some zoos may be harder to get into than others. What will set you apart is going to be those herp/exotics-related experiences, or a demonstrated area of expertise. For me, what set me apart and got me hired was 25 years of experience keeping herps but more than that was a diverse academic background, some magazine articles I had written, and my experience in designing and building my own naturalistic vivaria.

All in all, I find my job very rewarding, even on its most tedious and nerve-wracking days. I wouldn't trade my career for any other job I've worked. I'm also a realist to in that I know if end up leaving my current position and go to work at another zoo, chances are I won't be paid as well. Hopefully, the cost of living will be lower [it sure can't be much higher], and so a lower wage won't hurt as much. Still, I love what I do and I'd rather love what I do and get paid less than hate what I do and get paid more.
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Matt Campbell
25 years herp keeping experience
Full-time zookeeper
Personal collection - 21 snakes (9 genera), 20 lizards (4 genera), 6 chelonians (2 genera)

"I work at a petstore and a customer came in looking for a snake he could keep at 5-6 ft by keeping it in a small enclosure."

I would have suggested that he place a smooth earth Snake in a 10 gallon aquarium, and that would hold him under the 5-6 foot range for atleast 20 years. Tell him we don't really like to do that to our earthsnakes, but with the space limitations that you seem to have, that should do the trick.

Steve

>>"I work at a petstore and a customer came in looking for a snake he could keep at 5-6 ft by keeping it in a small enclosure."
>>
>>I would have suggested that he place a smooth earth Snake in a 10 gallon aquarium, and that would hold him under the 5-6 foot range for atleast 20 years. Tell him we don't really like to do that to our earthsnakes, but with the space limitations that you seem to have, that should do the trick.
>>
>>Steve