Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all, this is my first time here on the retic forum. The reason I never come here is that retics are not legal here in Ma. All I can say is "WOW". Such a huge assortment of different morphs of retics I'm amazed (and I've only checked through the top few posts, LOL.) I'm fortunate enough to live only 30 minutes from NERD so I can always go there and look at them, just not own one Take care, Scott Sullivan.
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Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

"In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws.
But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
—Martin Luther King Jr

Although I do not agree with jsut anyone having a retic, I also disagree with passing such laws as your state has. Unfortunately, and respectively, people are very ignorant about things (not just snakes).
On a side note, I heard this on the radio the other day.
F- feeling
E- everything
A- as
R- real

There is alot of truth to that (I would imagine so, it makes alot of sense anyway). People hear stories and just assume they are correct. As we have all said before, snakes really get a bad rap. I have seen snakes do some AMAZING things: interaction with other animals (NOT feeding time though), show personality (I can honestly tell some of my snakes just by their actions and reactions), habits, etc. People do not give snakes HALF the credit they deserve. They think just like other animals do, but obviously just on different levels/degrees.
Hopefully one day your state will open their minds and understand some of these things and change their laws OR you have the opportunity to move and join in on a WONDERFUL species of snake.
Brian Oakley

I agree with you that many (if not most) people should not own the true giants, I hate that there is just an 'across the board' ban on these animals. We're not even allowed to have chamaleons! What's dangerous about them? I was speaking to Bill up at NERD one day and didn't realize that they were originally based in Massachusetts but because of the laws decided to go to NH. I don't blame them, the thought goes through my head regularly. The funny thing is that if we were allowed to keep retics, I probably still wouldn't own one. I have so many other animals (and only limited space for big ones) but to not have the option leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I just recently found out that once my burmese python reaches 10' it will be illegal unless I have a permit. She's currently 6' and quickly approaching that 'illegal' 10' mark. Now I have to figure out how to get this permit. The one thing I have going for me is that I do educational shows for the Salem public school systems so I think I have a better chance at this permit because of this reason. Now I just have to figure out a plan to get myself and my collection to the "Live free or die" state! Take care, Scott.
-----
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

"In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws.
But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
—Martin Luther King Jr

Scott,

I live in MA as well, though I haven't heard of retics being illegal. Where is it that you found this information? I'd like to check for myself, as I own other 'giants'. As far as I knew, in MA a keeper needs only to attain a permit to keep any animal that exceeds 10' in length. And I've been told that it is not at all unreasonable to get that permit - so long as you can show that you can properly house, care for, and maintain the animal.

Thanks,
- Mark

>>Hello all, this is my first time here on the retic forum. The reason I never come here is that retics are not legal here in Ma. All I can say is "WOW". Such a huge assortment of different morphs of retics I'm amazed (and I've only checked through the top few posts, LOL.) I'm fortunate enough to live only 30 minutes from NERD so I can always go there and look at them, just not own one Take care, Scott Sullivan.

Hi Mark, Where in Ma. do you live? I live in Salem. After checking furthur you are correct about being able to own this with a permit. I got the info from www.neherp.com. So how hard are these permits to get? How do you show them your able to properly house them? Who knows, I may be owning a retic, LOL. Thanks for any info you can give. Take care, Scott.
-----
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

"In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws.
But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
—Martin Luther King Jr

Scott,

I live in Lynn, MA. Surprise, surprise. You might have heard in the past that it is expressly forbidden by city ordinances of the City of Lynn to keep ANY REPTILES within the city limits. That was true until about a year ago. It was then, about a year ago, that Pet Express opened a store in Lynn on the Lynnway. Being a corporate chain of stores, with all the money and lawyers big chain stores have, they decided that they wanted to be able to sell reptiles in Lynn just as they do in all their other stores. So they threw the money and time into it and got the city to review the ordinance, take a vote to amend it, and succeeded.

This is what thier success amounted to: the ordinance was amended to read something to the effect of, "... the word "reptile" shall hereby be removed from section 1B...". Not much of an amendment, but it works, I guess. Trouble is, further on in the ordinance it still says that "wild or exotic animals" are still forbidden. Now how vague is that?!?! I tell you one thing, I am hereby considering my burmese python to be tame - that is, NOT WILD, just as any household dog is as NOT WILD as any wild dog in Africa. Get my point. Also, I am hereby considering my snakes to be NOT EXOTIC, as they were bred and born here, in this wonderful USofA. At least, those are the best arguements I can think of to put forth. Though I know it doesnt' really help when you're dealing with unreasonable politicians.

I've been told that the permits are not hard to get at all - GIVEN, you can show you are an able keeper. Now, that's going to include security both FOR the animal and FROM the animal (secure enclosures, etc), husbandry (caging, space, feeding, environmental controls, etc). There are other things I can't recall off the top of my head - but they are very reasonable things that I agree with entirely. I don't have my state permit yet, as my burm is just up to about 9 feet now, but I have inquired about this in anticipation of the day. You know I'll be starting the footwork on it any day now (I want to have the permit in place BEFORE he hits the 10' mark). I believe the permit is issued from the Department of Fish and Game (?). I have the info in an email I have saved at home. I'll double check it later on tonight.

Hope this was at least interesting,
Thanks for reading,
- Mark

P.S.
Mind if I ask, what animals do you keep now?

>>Hi Mark, Where in Ma. do you live? I live in Salem. After checking furthur you are correct about being able to own this with a permit. I got the info from www.neherp.com. So how hard are these permits to get? How do you show them your able to properly house them? Who knows, I may be owning a retic, LOL. Thanks for any info you can give. Take care, Scott.

For those that don't know, Salem and Lynn are neighboring cities. So how do they know if you can properly house these animals? Do they actually come to your house and check the enclosures? I assume not. How is this pet store on the Lynnway? The only pet store that I've found to be decent is PJ's pets on Rt. 1. I got my dumerils there (at way too much money) and have been very pleased with her. Here's my list of animals:

1.1 adult BCI
0.1 Dumerils boa
1.0 Solomon Island tree boa
1.2 Ball pythons
0.1 Burmese python
0.1 Blood python
0.1 Brooksi kingsnake
0.1 snow Cornsnake
0.3 Eastern milksnakes
2.6 Eastern Garters (which my wife laughs at

I think that all but I may have missed some, LOL. If you have any info you can pass on to me about getting these permits it would be much appreciated. If you want to know what I think about the Massachusetts laws, check the second part of my signature Here's my email, snakinaroundtown@yahoo.com. Keep in touch and maybe we can meet up sometime. Take care, Scott Sullivan. P.S. below is a pic of Muffin, my Burmese Python.

-----
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

"In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws.
But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
—Martin Luther King Jr

Scott,

I believe that a representative from the state actually does come out to the location for an 'on-site' inspection. I have my computer at home in a few pieces right now for an upgrade, but as soon as I get it back together I'll find the email I have on it with the state contact info and I'll forward it to you.

As for PetExpress on the Lynnway, and for that matter PJ's too, well - I can only say that I have yet to find a pet store that I don't have an issue with in one regard or another. The only exception to that, I'd say, would be Curious Creatures in Beverly. It seems to me that they generally keep their place and animals clean and well.

That's a lot of snakes you have there. My "collection" includes 1.0 labyrinth Burmese python (~9' now), and 0.1 Suriname b.c.c. (~3.5' now). I'm very happy with the two of them - they're easy to care for and both have excellent dispositions.

I'd like to check out your collection sometime if that's cool with you. I like seeing how other people setup their 'snake rooms'. I'll try and send out that email to you this weekend sometime, provided I can get my computer back together - and have it work!

here's just a couple shots of my 'kids'...

my 1.0.0 labyrinth burmese...

and my 0.1.0 Suriname b.c.c. ...

- Mark

>>For those that don't know, Salem and Lynn are neighboring cities. So how do they know if you can properly house these animals? Do they actually come to your house and check the enclosures? I assume not. How is this pet store on the Lynnway? The only pet store that I've found to be decent is PJ's pets on Rt. 1. I got my dumerils there (at way too much money) and have been very pleased with her. Here's my list of animals:

1.1 adult BCI
0.1 Dumerils boa
1.0 Solomon Island tree boa
1.2 Ball pythons
0.1 Burmese python
0.1 Blood python
0.1 Brooksi kingsnake
0.1 snow Cornsnake
0.3 Eastern milksnakes
2.6 Eastern Garters (which my wife laughs at

I think that all but I may have missed some, LOL. If you have any info you can pass on to me about getting these permits it would be much appreciated. If you want to know what I think about the Massachusetts laws, check the second part of my signature Here's my email, snakinaroundtown@yahoo.com. Keep in touch and maybe we can meet up sometime. Take care, Scott Sullivan. P.S. below is a pic of Muffin, my Burmese Python.

Do'nt go near curious creatures there store is loaded with mites and to top it off i heard they had a IBD episode.

P.s. Just move to NH you have as much chance of getting permits/laws changed then you do of seeing Jimmy Hoffa and Whitey Bulger driving up 95

lol

Peace

I can understand warning someone of mites,.. I do it all the time with a local vendor near me,.... but to pass on heresay of that magnitude,.. that isn't cool. What if it isn't/wasn't true? Your post here would be damaging to their business for no reason at all. That isn't cool. Maybe bits of uncertain info like that should be left to email.

Just a suggestion.

>>Do'nt go near curious creatures there store is loaded with mites and to top it off i heard they had a IBD episode.
>>
>>
>>P.s. Just move to NH you have as much chance of getting permits/laws changed then you do of seeing Jimmy Hoffa and Whitey Bulger driving up 95
>>
>>lol
>>
>>
>>Peace
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

It is a little much to speak, based on rumor, ill of a business about such a serious issue. Personally I don't care because I have no need to go there, or to any pet store for that matter (I kind of hate pet stores). But, if I were a person who needed to or was planning to go there, I would appreciate being warned about the possibility. Then again, shouldn't one assume that there is always a 'possibility', until you get to check for yourself. Maybe it could have just been put a little more tactfully.

>>I can understand warning someone of mites,.. I do it all the time with a local vendor near me,.... but to pass on heresay of that magnitude,.. that isn't cool. What if it isn't/wasn't true? Your post here would be damaging to their business for no reason at all. That isn't cool. Maybe bits of uncertain info like that should be left to email.
>>
>>Just a suggestion.
>>
>>
>>>>Do'nt go near curious creatures there store is loaded with mites and to top it off i heard they had a IBD episode.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>P.s. Just move to NH you have as much chance of getting permits/laws changed then you do of seeing Jimmy Hoffa and Whitey Bulger driving up 95
>>>>
>>>>lol
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Peace
>>-----
>>It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

My internet screwed up last night and Im just now checking this thread. Well, I personally haven't heard about IBD at their store but I know from experience that they do have mites. I bought a BP there a few years ago and it never made it. No matter how much I fed it, it never gained weight and eventually wasted away. I will personally never step foot into that store. It's disgusting! I can't give any info regarding IBD there though. While I don't like most pet stores, I'd go to Petco long before I'd go to Curious Creatures. Take care, Scott.
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Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

"In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws.
But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
—Martin Luther King Jr

mmmmm...snake from there, twithcing, symptons of a res infection, regurgitation, lack of movement walks like IBD.....talks like IBD ..mmmmm...because it was IBD

sorry for the sarcasim thought i needed to defend my self

p.s.-Brian Smith go nuts ripping this statement apart

"If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...it's a duck"

That's easy,.... it's one thing to say "I heard" and quite another to imply, "I saw". Either way it is HIGHLY irresponsible to perpetuate rumors where someone's business is concerned with something of this magnitude.

Furthermore,.. IF there really was such a snake, you or anyone else doesn't know the whole story or history on it. It may have come in that way and was resold. I don't know those people and I generally DETEST pet shops as a whole and the money-only way they approach reptile involvement, but I do know that pet shops buy or are given snakes by the general public ALL THE TIME. You cannot take ONE example of ONE snake that ONE "guy" got some time back and go around posting, "They have IBD!" It's irresponsible and quite frankly, defamatory.

>>
>>p.s.-Brian Smith go nuts ripping this statement apart
>>
>>
>>
>>"If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...it's a duck"
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

The "story" or "history" of the snake is irrelevant here. If there is ANYTHING visibly wrong with any snake passing through a petshop (mites, illness...) it should not even be displayed until it is properly quarantined and treated. People should be alerted to creeps who have poor husbandry skills with snakes if they are in the business.

I didn't know about that situation at Curious Creatures. Good to know though. Of course, I haven't been there in I don't know how long (or to any pet store for that matter - I kind of hate pet stores).

As for the laws - they don't need to be changed - they already are changed. I just got a copy of the updated ordinance a couple days ago. I made a couple copies already too - one to keep with me at all times (in my wallet) and the other to keep safe at my house - in case anyone tries to call the authorities on me...

>>Do'nt go near curious creatures there store is loaded with mites and to top it off i heard they had a IBD episode.
>>
>>
>>P.s. Just move to NH you have as much chance of getting permits/laws changed then you do of seeing Jimmy Hoffa and Whitey Bulger driving up 95
>>
>>lol
>>
>>
>>Peace