Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Pretty dark animal for such a low elevation, the ruber is typical.
Cheers
Brett

Excuse me sir, but you as a bilogist know that no rattlesnake is just typical.LOL, jon

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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

For the audiences that are not in the know... what does "low elevation" mean?

As far as darker goes, I'm not to sure elevation has anything to do with it. Time of day may have a lot to do with it. I've seen nearly all black helleri first thing in the morning flipping for other snakes. Later in the afternoon the one's encountered seem pretty typical for a helleri to me, as shown in the photo's. I've seen them up at about 6500'+, and don't recall anything different about them colorwise. Young helleri are pretty brightly colored for sure.

The first picture is a helleri I found this year at around 800', I've seen them at 200' closer to the coast, I'm sure there found even lower, more toward to the coast.

Below that, is a helleri found at about 3000', nice green on this one.

....eri with it...hahahahahaha
I bet the Lat-man is gonna say that....that.... Az black was fd in the salton sink & Im sayn no way...cuz thats where the winders & iguanas..they play...

Heres what I fd....

Wow that second snake has a big time oreganus look to it more than helleri. Very nice.

In Palos Verdes (before all the recent building), helleri were rarely but sometimes found near the sand at the base of the hillside on a few of the less-traveled beaches. In other words right on the beach.

There was a "hub" or "den" or whatever you want to call it where Donald Trump built his golf course. They mowed it down of course. Poor snakes. Been there for many years. That was about 50ft ASL.

I go out to the mountain biking trails almost every Wed. morning during the Summer (That's when my wife watches my daughter). I am out there for about two hours and it is rare that I don't see one.

Should I be looking for you?

Jake

Low elevation meaning not very high up, the location for this helleri was probably only a couple of hundred feet ASL, if that.
This was an adult animal so age wouldnt come into play here colorwise. Just an unusual find for this area I believe, especially when one considers the competition from winders, specks, and rubers which have all been found within 100 yards of this location.
Too bad it wasnt alive when I found it, that would have been better!
Cheers
Brett

But i think what lateralis is trying to say is that "usually", crotes in the desert are a bit more washed out than those in our coastal region. For example, the carlsbad helleri I have found to look almost like cerbs, they are almost jet black (sure there are exceptions) and same w/ rubers. I have found them in the carlsbad/ encinitas area that look just vibrant red w/ white diamonds and most desert rubers i have found tend to be a lot less red and faded out(still red just not as vibrant). This is just my observation. I think brett was shocked at the darkness of the animal he found because if it existed in those parts,it should realistically be a lighter animal, I think. (If some of you are trying to understand what I am talking about, I have inserted pics to back up my statement- remember, this is merely my experience and not set in stone).
First is a ruber caught in carlsbad california last year, next is a whitewater ruber from this year. This differential in coloring was what I think lat was expecting to see from that helleri. Jon

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FREEDOM PEACE UNITY ONE LOVE

I need a good black helleri fix again one of these days. It's been three years already.

great photo too.

There is a spot I go in the mountains that the white is more cream/yellow, and in the mornings they look kinda like an eastern.

Mike

Some more dark guys

and lite one's too

nice shots Brendan, that first one is a dead ringer for the one I found. I'll have to put up some pics of oreganus from a densite up in Marin County, CA. Awesome browns and reds in these little skeezers.
Ciao
B

Thanks Brendan, yeah it was a strange one, a first for me in this region. Hopefully that was not the last one! Be talking to you soon my friend.
Ciao
Brett

Cool observation and I am sure you will see more just like that one, only still alive next time. That whole range is loaded with all different color morphs and my experience is that elevation as well as habitat play a roll in color phase. I don't think elevation is the sole factor because much like our cerbs here in AZ you can have really light colored animals up at high elevation and really dark one's down low.

I have probably only seen thirty or forty helleri from CA and from a limited number of areas but the coolest one's by far have always been in higher elevations.

So true, I am so used to seeing pale snakes down here in the Salton Sink. Seeing a snake that looks like an oreganus, and that one would have fooled me up north, in my neck o the woods was plain weird. I am going to keep looking in the area and see if I can uncover anything else as interesting (a shot of all 4 sp. hanging out within sight of each other would be nice!).

Cheers
brett

....butt...you both better hope Mr Cascabel desnt getwind of this...he's a pretty stout feller...
They dont get it Brett...a dark viridis in the winder zone...it aint about color....its about wrong! Youll live to be a 100 & thats the last viridis you;ll see in the valley bajada...& im too lazy rite now...but have you actually plotted the elev. ?? & of course sealevel in Coachella is a whole dift kettle of fish than sealevel in Malibu!!!!

Interesting ob 4 sure...keep em coming.... RxR

oui mssr j'aime bien les noir! LOL, and yes I agree I doubt I will be seeing one again anytime soon in that area unless they are more common than reported. I have not as yet gotten the ele. data but will on the next run out when I have my GPS with me. Hopefully I wont be mistaken for a nere do well by mssr cha, cha, change!LOL
Ciao
B

Here are two helleri I found in the Santa Monica Mountains. I would say that they are quite dark. Actually, all the helleri I have found in the Santa Monica Mts have been dark. The pattern is barely visible in some of them. Just thought I would share...

Joe

np