Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Opinions welcomed

Our Website!

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David Beauchemin
High End Herps.Inc
http://HighEndHerps.com

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sig file edited.

Edited on August 11, 2005 at 16:00:32 by PHWyvern.

So damn cute!

but not as cute as these.

Just kidding nice snake.

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Coastal Herps

Crested Geckos Dominate!

2.2.2 Crested Geckos
.3 Leopard Geckos

I personally don't like artificially hybridized herps; just something that doesn't sit well with me. On top of that, I personally think the "hobby" screwed up when we decided to mass produce albinos and other funky morphs in order to make a nice profit w/out focusing on the husbandry aspects of the hobby....we'll never, ever be able to come close to beating what nature perfected and I still can't find anything close that looks as nice as a well patterned and contrasted "normal" burm or rock. Oh well, I'm a SMALL minority in this day and age when it is all about coming out with the first of its kind, or, having the first or most expensive of its kind, or, to come up with something so freakishly weird looking in order to make some money. Your subject line alone shows how we sensationalize the various morphs that are out there. But, good luck with your project and like they say, to each his/her own; as long as this snake brings joy to you then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks; including me.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>Opinions welcomed
>>
>>
>>Our Website!
>>
>>-----
>>David Beauchemin
>>High End Herps.Inc
>>http://HighEndHerps.com
>>
>>____
>>
>>sig file edited.
>>
>>Edited on August 11, 2005 at 16:00:32 by PHWyvern.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Rob,

You sound stressed out. Though I do agree with you that the best Burmese pythons are the normals. That has always been my position on that, even though I do have a "labyrinth" burm (back when I got mine I still hadn't fully considered the implication of supporting the industry's 'morph-machines' - I'm sure I won't ever get another morph again; of any kind). Of course, I care very much for my 'genetic freak', as it is not his fault that I had a lapse in judgement five years ago. I intend not only to 'live and learn', but perhaps to help others see the awesome beauty of what nature has created. How I can do this, I don't know. Maybe someone will read this thread and agree that indeed nature is the better architect for all living things.

It's been a looong day - time for bed;
- Mark
.

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.
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My personal website: www.antegy.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
My Kingsnake.com Picture Galleries

- 1.0.0 Labyrinth Burmese Python Gallery
- 0.1.0 Suriname Boa Gallery
- 0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake Gallery
- 1.0.0 Pueblan Milksnake Gallery
- 0.1.0 Trinket Ratsnake Gallery
-------------------------------------------------------------
My photography on photo.net
-------------------------------------------------------------
My photography on modelmayhem.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
Me on myspace.com

Nah, not stressed out at all (although I did get a nice face shot from one of our resident Great Horned Owls...feels like a baseball bat slammed into my face; ah, the joys of running a wildlife center)....I don't think its possible for me to feel a lot of stress with a job I love so much. Folks on this forum know that I am a rather upfront person; some handle it well and many have their belts on too tight. Anyway, our center also has a couple of these genetically engineered animals and as you said, its not their fault at all and we love our's but I was just trying to make a point; not trying to be a jerk.

>>Rob,
>>
>>You sound stressed out. Though I do agree with you that the best Burmese pythons are the normals. That has always been my position on that, even though I do have a "labyrinth" burm (back when I got mine I still hadn't fully considered the implication of supporting the industry's 'morph-machines' - I'm sure I won't ever get another morph again; of any kind). Of course, I care very much for my 'genetic freak', as it is not his fault that I had a lapse in judgement five years ago. I intend not only to 'live and learn', but perhaps to help others see the awesome beauty of what nature has created. How I can do this, I don't know. Maybe someone will read this thread and agree that indeed nature is the better architect for all living things.
>>
>>It's been a looong day - time for bed;
>>- Mark
>>.
>>
>>-----
>>.
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My personal website: www.antegy.com
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My Kingsnake.com Picture Galleries
>>
>> - 1.0.0 Labyrinth Burmese Python Gallery
>> - 0.1.0 Suriname Boa Gallery
>> - 0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake Gallery
>> - 1.0.0 Pueblan Milksnake Gallery
>> - 0.1.0 Trinket Ratsnake Gallery
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My photography on photo.net
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My photography on modelmayhem.com
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>Me on myspace.com
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

"Maybe someone will read this thread and agree that indeed nature is the better architect for all living things."
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I have always thought normals to be the best, still do. Just I happen to love all the morph's too. Whell I'm not too into the albino Granite's, but hay it's just me.

Anyway try to remember, ALL morphs came from nature. Nature made them, and it's only cause of nature we have them.

But yea I do think the normals look the best, hell after all the years I've had burms, I just last year got my first albino's. Now it seems as if I can't stop thinking about the albino green labs I hope to have in a few years.

You are right, all animals in a sense, are morphs. The critical difference is that when a 'morph' is created by nature it has gone through the trials of life - having succussfully survived it becomes a living, viable entity. When people stick their fingers into the evolutionary machinery that produces organisms of healthy, deserving genetic stature - well, I personally can't say for sure (I'm no geneticist), but it seems that short-circuiting the process can yield very poor results; at least as far as the animal is concerned (and possibly in regard to the environment the animal would live in).

Let me try to give an example. ?. Ok - albinos, ever so popular in captivity, but quite rare in nature. Why? I suspect it may be on account of an albinos weakend genetic make-up. Melanin (or pigmentation in any capacity) does serve a crucial purpose. Quite simply, it serves to protect the flesh from harmful UV radiation from the sun. An animal lacking it would not have that protection and would therefore be much more suspect to the ill effects of exposure. And so it is likely to die off, leaving the animals in the 'healthy' gene-pool to propagate - and so, the 'natural' process goes.

I like nature's slower, more thorough way of doing it. Ours might yield animals that seem 'pretty' to us in the immediate sense, but that is so superficial and temporary that its hard, at least for me, to use that as a justification to create abominations.

Who here is okay with eating genetically modified foods?

- Mark
.

-----
.
-------------------------------------------------------------
My personal website: www.antegy.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
My Kingsnake.com Picture Galleries

- 1.0.0 Labyrinth Burmese Python Gallery
- 0.1.0 Suriname Boa Gallery
- 0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake Gallery
- 1.0.0 Pueblan Milksnake Gallery
- 0.1.0 Trinket Ratsnake Gallery
-------------------------------------------------------------
My photography on photo.net
-------------------------------------------------------------
My photography on modelmayhem.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
Me on myspace.com

I like the way all of you think. I would like to pose another answer to the question stated of why albinos don't survive very long in nature. Predation becomes a very serious problem for an "albino" or other "colors and patterns". In West Texas for example, once and a long while you will find an albino rattlesnake and usually it is only very small.

Another intresting little note could be in people as well. Our more intelligent graduates get scholarships to "more renound" schools. Does it make them more valuable as people, no, but it does make the more valuable in the business world. Not trying to start an arguement or anything, just pointing out a few other points of view.
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"New strategy R-2, Let the Wookie Win!!!"

I see your point. And I myself prefer 'normals' to morphs.
However, Im no geneticist either but I dont think a morph or albinos genetic makeup is any weaker than that of a 'normal'. The primary reason albino species of any type of animal dont survive in the wild is because they dont camoflage with their environment. In the wild they stick out like a sore thumb and therefore are highly susceptible to predation.

>>You are right, all animals in a sense, are morphs. The critical difference is that when a 'morph' is created by nature it has gone through the trials of life - having succussfully survived it becomes a living, viable entity. When people stick their fingers into the evolutionary machinery that produces organisms of healthy, deserving genetic stature - well, I personally can't say for sure (I'm no geneticist), but it seems that short-circuiting the process can yield very poor results; at least as far as the animal is concerned (and possibly in regard to the environment the animal would live in).
>>
>>Let me try to give an example. ?. Ok - albinos, ever so popular in captivity, but quite rare in nature. Why? I suspect it may be on account of an albinos weakend genetic make-up. Melanin (or pigmentation in any capacity) does serve a crucial purpose. Quite simply, it serves to protect the flesh from harmful UV radiation from the sun. An animal lacking it would not have that protection and would therefore be much more suspect to the ill effects of exposure. And so it is likely to die off, leaving the animals in the 'healthy' gene-pool to propagate - and so, the 'natural' process goes.
>>
>>I like nature's slower, more thorough way of doing it. Ours might yield animals that seem 'pretty' to us in the immediate sense, but that is so superficial and temporary that its hard, at least for me, to use that as a justification to create abominations.
>>
>>Who here is okay with eating genetically modified foods?
>>
>>- Mark
>>.
>>
>>-----
>>.
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My personal website: www.antegy.com
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My Kingsnake.com Picture Galleries
>>
>> - 1.0.0 Labyrinth Burmese Python Gallery
>> - 0.1.0 Suriname Boa Gallery
>> - 0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake Gallery
>> - 1.0.0 Pueblan Milksnake Gallery
>> - 0.1.0 Trinket Ratsnake Gallery
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My photography on photo.net
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My photography on modelmayhem.com
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>Me on myspace.com

I just want to know why you think it commands a price of $100,000???? I mean come one, breed an albino lab burm to a normal rock, breed the babies to each other. Woo hooo, thats worth 100 g's??? I don't think so.

Your not the first person to think of it, just the first to do it.