Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I Just traded a corn for a bum. and I was woundering what would be the best set up,in all areas?(humidity,temp,size etc.)
also it is a female,on the bottom of her is the vent, but ubove a little ways is a small slit. Is this her putang, or somthing else?

Would be nice if you had done a little research before getting this snake. I hope you are at least aware of how large these snakes are capable of getting, especially females. As popular as this species is, there is a plethora of information for them out there. Keep the warm side of her enclosure at 88-92 degrees F, with an ambient temperature of 75 degrees, and humidity should be about 60%. It's hard to say how big of an enclosure to start your baby out with. I suppose you could start with a 20L tank (30"x12"x12". But even then, , it will be outgrown VERY quickly. Burms are capable of reaching 6-9 feet in their first year alone.

As for the anatomy question, the slit you see is where the umblical cord was attached to her in the egg. The "putang" as you so eloquently call it, is actually in the vent. As a matter of fact, everything comes out of the vent (poop, urates, babies, hemipenes in the case of males).

LOLOL, that's "Poontang", and it's inside the vent. I don't know what else you mean. could you put up a pic?

Quig

Going from a corn snake to a burmese python is a HUGE step and most folks are not ready for that kind of jump; especially if you have no experience, or even limited experience, working with large constrictors. Judging by the way you wrote your post, I have a feeling you are pretty young and the odds are not good that this snake will stay with you for a long time. To make matters worse, you trade for a snake that you don't even know what the proper temps and humidity levels are for this animal? That should have been done LONG before you made this trade and shows that you are probably not ready for this snake or any herp for that matter; rushing in to bring a new animal home w/out knowing what its requirements are is a HUGE mistake and one that the animal usually has to pay dearly with. Since you messed up, you can also turn things around (we all make mistakes); it's your responsibility. Hook up with someone older who has been keeping large constrictors for a long time and learn the proper husbandry/management techniques of owning a burm. If you still don't know the proper temps by now, there's a chance it already has a nice RI infection and will need some medical assistance. I would recommend a good vet check up. Your temps should range from 78-80 on the cool side to the low to mid 80's on the warm side and a basking area that reaches 88-92 deg F. Night temps should not fall below 80 deg F. Humidity should be in the 60-80% range...but with excellent ventilation. If you have any doubts, find a new home for this animal.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>Hello, I Just traded a corn for a bum. and I was woundering what would be the best set up,in all areas?(humidity,temp,size etc.)
>>also it is a female,on the bottom of her is the vent, but ubove a little ways is a small slit. Is this her putang, or somthing else?
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Rob,
From the standpoint of someone who runs a rescue such as yours, what is the answer to this dilemma? We know that large constrictors will always be popular, and we know there will always be those who buy these animals on impulse only to turn around and neglect them or abandon them later. Of course this happens with all animals in the pet trade, but seems to be a bigger problem with large reptiles such as varanids, iguana's (these are the number one problem in my area, followed by burms, and then sulcata's), crocodilians, and large snakes. I know we all speak about education, but to me it seems like window dressing. I know that the local "pet" stores in my area are very, very lax regarding who they will sell pythons and anacondas to, which is one reason why I no longer even buy crickets from them. In one instance I even overheard a salesperson tell a mother with a young son that African rock pythons make great "pets". The local herp club lately has been trying to do some education through pamphlets at the local reptile expo, but it looked to me to be very limited in it's success. At the zoo where I work I do a weekly Meet-A-Keeper with our 20 foot retic for the public where I try to educate them regarding these amazing animals. At the end I try to bring home the seriousness of keeping these animals in a private collection, but I sometimes wonder how much people are listening. Do not get me wrong, I am not against the keeping of these animals by the private herp enthusiast as I keep anacondas, retic's, African rocks, and scrubs myself, but I am dead set against the keeping of these animals by those who will not dedicate the resources and time needed to properly care for these truly awesome reptiles. It seems you are on the same page, but what have you found to be a good way to reach the public regarding the keeping of large reptiles? I cannot speak for all, but many reptile dealers do not seem even slightly interested in the long term survival of the reptile they sell or the long term health of the hobby in general (I have bought 12 large constrictors through the years [I still have all of them] from different breeders and reptile shops and never once been asked about my experience or knowledge regarding my purchase). There also are very few books which address the proper husbandry of large snakes with the depth in which it should be addressed in. I own most every book on the husbandry of pythons and boas and I can only think of 2 that give anything approaching specific guidelines to the size and strength of the cage needed to house these animals. Most also do not address ventilation design, the absolute importance of thermal and humidity gradients, and not one addresses the change in personality that can and does occur during breeding season with snakes such as retics (i.e., going off feed, restlessness, pacing, snout rubbing, and sometimes aggressive behavior). About the only good info on large snakes that I have found is in a couple of older articles in "Reptiles" magazine, and even these were not complete. Yes, there is the web, but as you know not all info gleaned off the Internet is valid. I feel with all of the laws (we recently were able to stop a total reptile ban in our area) now regulating the hobby that if nothing is done even those of us who are responsible will soon no longer be able to keep the reptiles we are so passionate about.
Best regards, and thank you for your time and input.

Shane Provstgaard

Shane, you asked a question that is still very difficult for me to answer. First and foremost, I cannot ever think of one instance in which I recommended the keeping of a burm or any large constrictor as a pet. Why? Because most will not be properly cared for even with the proper information. Most folks just don't understand what they are getting themselves into when purcashing that cute little burm in the 10 gallon tank at the pet store. Instead, I try to educate them on good choices for a large-but-not-too-large of a pet python such as short-tails, bloods, olives, various carpet pythons and some of the boids such as good ol' boa constrictors. There are many wonderful choices to choose from.....but a burm is not usually one of them. Now I realize that the burm breeders will not like hearing this but I am just speaking from strictly a professional point of view and someone who runs a facility where we take in over 50 burms and other large constrictors annually. The problem lies with the breeders; plain and simple. The number of baby burms in the market place does NOT reflect the actual need of baby burms by the general public. Instead, breeders create a need with these very people; folks who probably are purchasing them out of impulse or the "cool" factor. Although I am not against captive breeding efforts of private individuals, nor, am I am against the rights of people to keep a pet burm if they so choose, BUT, I do have a problem with the intent as to why breeders are selling species that most people should not keep (I can answer that....MONEY).

I usually get the calls from folks "after the fact" when they realize they made a mistake. I take the opportunity to try to help them keep their burm properly and in a manner that is safe to the keeper and his/her family. If I can convince them that they made this commitment and that its their responsibility to keep the snake for its entire life, then I have succeeded. WIth the proper resources, maturity, physical ability, knowledge, lifestyle and PASSION, anyone can keep a large constrictor but we like to make sure that people realize that most of these same folks will not be able to adequately take care of their pets for the long term (and these are people who meet what I would consider to be the ideal requirements).

So, to make a short answer LONG, I really don't have the answer but I will just continue to do my share in educating people about the responsible and proper care of herps....we as a herp community need to continue to fight for our rights but also realize that not every reptile makes a good pet.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>Rob,
>> From the standpoint of someone who runs a rescue such as yours, what is the answer to this dilemma? We know that large constrictors will always be popular, and we know there will always be those who buy these animals on impulse only to turn around and neglect them or abandon them later. Of course this happens with all animals in the pet trade, but seems to be a bigger problem with large reptiles such as varanids, iguana's (these are the number one problem in my area, followed by burms, and then sulcata's), crocodilians, and large snakes. I know we all speak about education, but to me it seems like window dressing. I know that the local "pet" stores in my area are very, very lax regarding who they will sell pythons and anacondas to, which is one reason why I no longer even buy crickets from them. In one instance I even overheard a salesperson tell a mother with a young son that African rock pythons make great "pets". The local herp club lately has been trying to do some education through pamphlets at the local reptile expo, but it looked to me to be very limited in it's success. At the zoo where I work I do a weekly Meet-A-Keeper with our 20 foot retic for the public where I try to educate them regarding these amazing animals. At the end I try to bring home the seriousness of keeping these animals in a private collection, but I sometimes wonder how much people are listening. Do not get me wrong, I am not against the keeping of these animals by the private herp enthusiast as I keep anacondas, retic's, African rocks, and scrubs myself, but I am dead set against the keeping of these animals by those who will not dedicate the resources and time needed to properly care for these truly awesome reptiles. It seems you are on the same page, but what have you found to be a good way to reach the public regarding the keeping of large reptiles? I cannot speak for all, but many reptile dealers do not seem even slightly interested in the long term survival of the reptile they sell or the long term health of the hobby in general (I have bought 12 large constrictors through the years [I still have all of them] from different breeders and reptile shops and never once been asked about my experience or knowledge regarding my purchase). There also are very few books which address the proper husbandry of large snakes with the depth in which it should be addressed in. I own most every book on the husbandry of pythons and boas and I can only think of 2 that give anything approaching specific guidelines to the size and strength of the cage needed to house these animals. Most also do not address ventilation design, the absolute importance of thermal and humidity gradients, and not one addresses the change in personality that can and does occur during breeding season with snakes such as retics (i.e., going off feed, restlessness, pacing, snout rubbing, and sometimes aggressive behavior). About the only good info on large snakes that I have found is in a couple of older articles in "Reptiles" magazine, and even these were not complete. Yes, there is the web, but as you know not all info gleaned off the Internet is valid. I feel with all of the laws (we recently were able to stop a total reptile ban in our area) now regulating the hobby that if nothing is done even those of us who are responsible will soon no longer be able to keep the reptiles we are so passionate about.
>>Best regards, and thank you for your time and input.
>>
>>Shane Provstgaard
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

However, what the heck do you do with all those huge snakes? I assume that your facility cannot keep all of them, that would be an immense undertaking. Just wondering, thanks in advance for the reply.
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phflame

I probably should have clarified it a bit; not all of the large constrictor (species) that come in are adults; we get our share of smaller sized burms in the 4-8' range. BUT, with that being said, you are absolutely right in that it is becoming increasingly difficult to place these animals. If they are good natured snakes, we will adopt them out to competent private collectors who undergo very rigid screening for approval. For the very large specimens, we have been lucky in finding zoos, museuems, reptile zoos, etc. in taking them. Unfortunately, euthenasia is sometimes necessary when we have exhausted all possible resources in finding a good home for an unwanted pet....sometimes, its the best course of action but still something that is heart breaking to me because its not the snake's fault (but you can't turn over a highly aggressive, 16' african rock python to just anyone). Hope this clarifies things a bit.

>>However, what the heck do you do with all those huge snakes? I assume that your facility cannot keep all of them, that would be an immense undertaking. Just wondering, thanks in advance for the reply.
>>-----
>>phflame
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Mr. Carmichael,

What is considered "rigid screening"? I am curious about what type of in depth screening is done to ensure that the owner that is inquiring is competent and knows what they are doing? Do they have to take a test? Do you pretty much have to trust them in saying that they have "this much" experience or what? I am just curious. Since I would eventually like to start taking in unwanted crocodilians when I aquire the space, I would like to get some ideas. If you still have my email address you can email me or you can just respond here. Whichever you feel is best.

Thanks!

Chris

that's a good question. I'm at home so I don't have my packet in front of me, however, here are some of the things we are looking for when we consider adopting out a burm:

1) AGE (no minors are allowed to adopt large constrictors)
2) Experience (must have prior experience in working with large burms and this requires a written or verbal recommendation from a reputable reptile person
3) Persons adopting a burm must give us their housing along with pictures of their facilities. Additionally, we must have a management and safety plan with the application. This requires a LOT of detailed information
4) We will NOT adopt burms out to persons living in apartment buildings
5) All local ordinances must be provided relating to animal laws in the community that they live in
6) Must have a written letter from their veterinarian that h/she will be overseeing the health of the animal

There's more but I think you see where I am going....we want to make sure that a burm adopted out stays with that owner for the rest of its life. Hope this helps. Rob

>>Mr. Carmichael,
>>
>> What is considered "rigid screening"? I am curious about what type of in depth screening is done to ensure that the owner that is inquiring is competent and knows what they are doing? Do they have to take a test? Do you pretty much have to trust them in saying that they have "this much" experience or what? I am just curious. Since I would eventually like to start taking in unwanted crocodilians when I aquire the space, I would like to get some ideas. If you still have my email address you can email me or you can just respond here. Whichever you feel is best.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Chris
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Kudos for high ideals, though it jars slightly with your previous statement on not debating practices, principles or beliefs.

Even if there are enough people, hypothetically capable to take in and safely and humanely house every ill tempered, poor conditioned animal without a home, there's a marked difference between can and will.

A highly skilled herper who wants a new burm or a rock python would probably prefer to buy a baby or take in a healthy, docile 6 footer rather than an agressive 15 ft animal with potential health problems that could threaten his/her entire collection.

The big 5 snakes are way out of my league, but among snakes I could manage, I for one would get more enjoyment from a down on it's luck corn snake than say, a fully grown, ill tempered whitelip or racer in similar straits which would greatly strain my skill, nerves, and caging budget. And if I was to adopt a new dog, I'd certainly prefer a friendly dog to a fear biter. (for whom I'd recommend euthanasia)

It becomes an unfortunate matter of triage, Even if a hypothetical no-kill shelter has endless funding, space and staff, (thus being hypothetical), the healthy sweet tempered cuties will have a much shorter stay, and the larger, ill tempered or unhealthy may be forced to live out their lives there without finding a new home. And if as little as one near impossible to adopt animal comes a week and sits there for the rest of it's life, the cumulative effect is mind boggling, acres of cages or kennels.

Now limit the funding, space and staff, and only three options remain for the resulting overflow. Shuffling the animals to another shelter, is only feasible till they too, run out of space. Dropping or loosening screening procedures may get them out but will result in poorly homed animals, (especially disastrous in the case of big ill tempered snakes who can withstand horrible conditions for years more than mammals) or lastly, euthanasia.
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0.1 chickens (Condor)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

David, before you shoot arrows at me, I can honestly say that in the 15 years I have been in this business professionally, we have only had to put down TWO animals (one because it was far too aggressive to place and the other one was in such horrid condition that euthenasia was the most humane thing to do)....two out of the 100's; not a bad record in my book considering how difficult it is to place unwanted burms/large snakes with good homes and facilities. So, if you consider this wrong, then you are living in an idealistic world (and boy would I like to live in a world like that if it would actually work...but it doesn't). I have no problem putting down an overly aggressive large constrictor if, and only if, we have exhausted all other measures (and adopting out to a private individual is not an option because my wildlife center then becomes liable for any harm that animal inflicts on someone else....may not be fair but that's reality). Although I have my dream job, putting down an animal is not the part I enjoy because it is never the animal's fault....it is the fault of our hobby but as I have said, has only been done a couple of times in all of the years I've been aroudn. I'm not going to get on my pulpit and preach too much, but I will just say that I've been doing this for a long, long time and I really don't blame the well intentioned burm owner wishing to keep a neat pet but rather the breeders, pet stores, reptile swaps and others who don't properly educate people as to what they are getting themselves into (and YES, there are some real good folks out there too). that's why I have such a stringent screening process when adopting out herps to prospective homes.

>>Quote:
>>Unfortunately, euthenasia is sometimes necessary when we have exhausted all possible resources in finding a good home for an unwanted pet....sometimes, its the best course of action but still something that is heart breaking to me because its not the snake's fault (but you can't turn over a highly aggressive, 16' african rock python to just anyone).
>>
>>I don't agree with this AT ALL. There is always someone, somewhere that can care for any animal in any condition or with any disposition. I for one would take in every agreesive animal that you would otherwise decide had to be put down. I would even pay all shipping costs.
>>
>>Anything beats someone playing God and killing something because it is afraid of us and bites.
>>
>>
>>Our Website
>>
>>-----
>>David Beauchemin
>>High End Herps.Inc
>>http://HighEndHerps.com
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL