Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all
I'm in the process of setting up a 55 gal. vivarium, complete with waterfall and shallow stream. Does anyone have an opinion on whether this is too much space or not for a trio of U.p's? Or too humid?
I've already resigned on using feeding cups so finding a snack shouldn't be an issue for the little guys.
Any comments on Aquarium style tops? Too little ventilation?
Thanks for the feedback; I'd rather learn from others' experience than my own mistakes!
Todd

only issues i can think of right off are a) you might tire yourself out each time you go looking for them and b) unless you're housing quite a few in there, you'll have to put in way more crickets than they'll actually eat just so they can come across them.
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-Mike Martin
North Carolina

i would say that keeping humidity up in larger enclosures is a lot more difficult, so i would say your concerns should be the opposite humidity-wise.
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-Mike Martin
North Carolina

All true
I was going to combat the cricket problem with a couple of feed cups (I perfected the idea while breeding chameleons and leucs) lined with sponges. As for humidity, I was thinking of modding a tropical fish aquarium lid, but I would be sacrificing ventilation.
Also, maybe you could tell what plastic egg crate is. I keep reading how it makes a great false bottom but no one at Home Depot knows what I'm talking about!
You're definatly right about losing them in such a large space. I'll probably get a 2:2 group and the space will aid in seperate male territories, though.
Thanks for your insights,
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Todd

1.0 Uromastyx maliensis
0.1 Boa constrictor ssp (Hogg)
0.1 Hemitheconyx caudicinctus
1 Avicularia versicolor
1 Brachypelma smithi
1 Ceratogyrus bechuanicus
1 Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens
1 Psalmopoeus irminia
1 Pterinochilus sp
1 Theraphosa blondi
1.0 Canis familiaris

I would get 2.2 because 1.2 groups tend not to be as productive. Atleast that is my experience with my own animals and through a few other friends' animals.

Egg crate is basically a plastic version of what you find holding your eggs in place when you buy eggs at the grocery store. The thing with this stuff is that it helps to raise the substrate off the ground so it can drain properly. Its amazing if you want to do some form of heavily planted vivaria. If tahts what you are going to do, I would recommend using hydrotin and orchid charcoal layered on top of each other separated by a fine nylon mesh and then put a layer of coir or organic soil on top of that about 2 inches thick so you can add some live plants and the likes to it. Leah posted a link to a cham sight that had a great set up for dwarf leaf chameleons, the set up can be used for uroplatus as well.

Live plants really help with the humidity issue.

Cheers
-b.jason

egg crate window louver (sp). it's not something homedumbpot would know about. go to a commercial lights supply shop or us.

we can help with the false bottom also, but you don't have a sump and that tank isn't designed with holes for your water flow
so you'll need to come up with something else to access your sump area; where your pump will sit. this might cost your a gecko
if it's not done right.

false bottom are the way to go though.

i suggest feeding pill bugs, crix and if you, roaches.

you can fashing 1/4" open space screen with an acrylic peice
to build a top that is half open, heling the air/humidity ratio and not compromise your accessability butyou'll need some supplies there too. where are you located? what type of soil are you planning? what types of wood? where was it collected? what types of plants? any ideas about the type of water you'll use in the water feature? how will you be sure it's not growing a bacteria that could bloom and kill your system? just things to think of.

I had 3 in 50gl for over a year plus 2 Red eye tree frogs. Heavily planted with a water section. They were very active at night and hunted down crickets very well, it was fun to watch with a night light. I would say the humidity was harder to control as mentioned but also there was more room to experiment.
Plus
I did notice that the males took over their own sections of the tank and would also return to them by morning.
I have pics if you wanna see.

I would definitly like to see your setup!
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Todd

1.0 Uromastyx maliensis
0.1 Boa constrictor ssp (Hogg)
0.1 Hemitheconyx caudicinctus
1 Avicularia versicolor
1 Brachypelma smithi
1 Ceratogyrus bechuanicus
1 Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens
1 Psalmopoeus irminia
1 Pterinochilus sp
1 Theraphosa blondi
1.0 Canis familiaris

Here are two pics, the right side had the water section. This is just before I had to break it down.

Sorry here's the info,
My first setup at it's height the water was about 3.5in and I had 2 feeder guppies in it, I always found fry in the rocks and mondo grass. I had compact florescent lights and everything was carved out of peat bricks. The soil was very wet all the time and I still cover the majority of the screen top. Behind the plants there were pieces of cork and brown vines you can really see in the pic. I never lost any in this setup. I also made a night light out of blue LED's from radio shack it was very easy to see them run at night. Hope this helps.
PS
I now started making the backgrounds out of cork and pond foam for drip walls it's a nice touch and not to hard to do.

i think it's fine. i wouldn't use a fish tank though, you're not
working with fish.

most of the notes i've read say that the Up are from "swamp - watery" areas. near creeks and such so no you couldn't have too
high humidity but you could have too LITTLE AIR FLOW!!!

you need ventilation, not from the top as there isn't any air movement unless you have a fan but still...room air into a vivarium is very wrong.

besides, how are you going to reach down and such to maintain the plants, dead crix, eggs, etc when you have a top only accessable tank?

build your self a front opening tank! study the landscape from which the Up are from, found and so on. don't build your water feature out of stone, plastic exo-terra junk or so on. make sure the edges of the stream are sealed so your soil isn't muddy, and design it so that the edges are also covered in moss. i can't imagine the pain one would go though to try and fix a broken jaw
on a Up. soft waterbanks are best.

we built a 30" long x 20" deep tank once with a waterfeature, plants, trees, etc for a 1.2 and with the front sliding open the maintenance was super easy! try it!

home

Actually, Uroplatus come from several different areas of madagascar. A huge chunk comes from areas of little humidity and high temps, like certain locales of ebanaui and pietschmanni. Most exported Uroplatus phantasticus come from the Anosibe ana'la region which is a "cloud forest." Even in times of drought they get super high humidity with fresh air. Good ventilation with U,phantasticus is more important than high humidity. I've been breeding mine in a fairly dry area, Pasadena CA, and they've lasted at 30% humidity for a few weeks but when the air went stagnant while I was experimenting about with temp control they started to crash pretty hard. If you can use live plants at all costs. Its more expensive and more work but it does the trick.

-b.jason

Right right, all over Mad - the Bleeding island there are Up's. the book says something like 7 different locations but i've got word they are also found further south and so on.

to your 30%, i have to say, don't take this wrong, but that's poor husbandry in deed. anything below 60% is poor husbandry in my book.

glad we agree on ventilation though.

cheers,

Deven

"If you do some research and learn about your new pets natural home, you will enjoy your more. If you decided to buy your reptile or amphibian from a breeder rather then a commercial outlet you've shown everyone you care. If you decide to set up a naturalistic vivarium or a simple to maintain natural-like setting you've improved the qaulity of life for you pet. All this learning and such will prove to be a healthy decisions for whichever species that you own..."

Take your own advice and research some more. You might actually learn something on locality. That might be why I am having such great success with Uroplatus, but my husbandry is bad so what do I know.

-b.jason

And buying from a breeder versus an outlet in this case does not necessarily mean that the breeders knows what they are doing. Some "outlets' actually have more experience with Uroplatus than other most private breeders, Reptile Depot versus the crazy guy who kept trying to sell pairs of U.ebanaui for 400/pair a few months ago or Michael Barrera either.

Jason

I've heard the ventilation theory alot. I've even heard of a few keepers who have small fans kick on a couple times a day to blow stagnant air out of the enclosure. Any thoughts on this?
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Todd
Gainesville, FL

our fans are on timers and circulate the air more then remove it. with the high amount of plants and their resperation, fresh air is created daily. the fans just move it around. i'm pretty anil about bring room air into these tanks. maybe from a sump area but not just the room. most folks place fans near the lights bring in warm air, room air has tons of dust in it to..but then again, i shave my eyebrows and live in a plastic suit.

just kidding...about the suit. circulate the air, don't bring new air in. convection can create micro climates that you wouldn't want in your vivarium.
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by circulating in fresh air you remove the stagnant air. Unless you have a few hepafilters, you are actually creating more issues by using recycled air. Using live plants only goes so far when it comes to air quality. It either needs to be properly filtered if it is in a closed area or it needs to be cycled out through a ventilation in take and out take. And you don't cool the room off either, you just keep moving the air around with just as much dust in it as before.

Jason

oh. you're right...LOL. anyway, plant resperation basically cleans the air, and during the day they give off O and during the night CO2. this with moving air in the vivarium is what many of us vivarist concider to be a closed system which in larger systems or small is part of the fun.

back to the point. moving air and fresh air - it's up to who ever.

late

Sincerely,

Deven Nicholson
Terra5Designs | 925-465-1295
Walnut Creek California
Ensuring Animal Husbandry through Education and Habitat Design.

After consulting of online sources, some books and one professor...

Can you give me your source that plants give off carbon dioxie at night?

Because according to all my sources so far... they breath in carbon dioxide and produce oxygen.

-b.jason

Boy,
I have a degree in Biology and I PROMISE you that plants give off CO2 at night. During the day, photons bombard the chlorophyll, the electron chain goes wild, the plant builds up sugar and gives off water vapor and O2 through the stoma (small closable portals) on the leaf surfaces.

At night, no more photons, the stoma are mostly closed, and the plant changes to a different type of energy cycle which has as a byproduct CO2. It's called "dark cycle". I can't really get more technical as my Vascular Plants text is in VT and I am not. I hope this helps.
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1.0 Sinaloan Milk Snake Orryn
1.0 Columbian Red-tail Boa Onyx
0.0.1 Crested Gecko Sticky Helix
0.0.1 GTP "Roxy"
0.0.1 Western Hognose Poco

Do you mean photorespiration.... the process in which plants convert inorganic nitrogen into usuable nitrates needed for plant growth. Took a bit of work finding that but thats a different process than what was being described. its the use of oxygen to break down a specific set of molecules so that the plant can use photosynthesis to use the newly formed nitrates. Its not exactly as straight forward that it is down at night, its used during stressful situations like intense light or low carbon dioxide levels.

I put my foot in my mouth on that one but atleast i got a better answer than what you gave. its much more complicated than just "they use oxygen at night." it has specific uses that helps to keep the photosynthetic apparati from being damaged under those conditions.