Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i was told that feeding mice and rat was a bad thing and to only feed like heart and things.
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if you have a healthy monitor, it really doesnt matter too much on if you feed it rodents or beef heart or what not, i fed my sav mice all the time , and i never had one problem with fur impaction or anything, i think its more a matter of opinion, i wouldnt feed it mice or rats all the time because well do you like to eat the same thing everyday, i would mix it up a bit,
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.1 blue spot timor
these lamps make my room hot!!!!

Well who ever told you that is a complete idiot. Mice/rats should be used as a staple diet for monitors, unless you have a dwarf monitor, but even than, insects should be used with mice. Stick with rodents as the main part of the diet. Mice, Rats, Chicks, Quail, and any insects...

So, I wont be. But thats besides the point.

People have a habit of regurgitating information that they hear the "big dogs" go on about, but truthfully, there can be any number of ways to feed a monitor lizard, and keep it healthy. Mice are probably the most "hassel free" options, but if someone chooses to feed thier lizard a processed meat diet(for example the turkey diet), they can do so, and have just as positive results. It requires sumplementation, and you wont have nice neat little stools, like the roughage in whole prey. But, by no means should a person feel like they can are required to conform to one set diet.

There are many methods to give advice. There are many methods to keeping monitors. These two may or may not be related.

There are also some basic ideas, like. Where a newbie asks advice, its because they lack experience. With that in mind, do you want to offer something that is very hard to do and requires experience? Or do you want to offer advice that is dependable and works easily and with a margin of error?

In this case, whole food items. like mice, are tested, proven and work with a margin of error. Partial foods are poor and often depend on the expertise of the keeper. The keeper must read the monitor and understand when to add/subtract, change, quit using, offer suppliments, etc. Also it depends on the keepers ability to make and continue making partial foods.

With whole foods, the new keeper can concentrate on learning other parts of husbandry. Whole foods are not only a good support for a pet monitor, but a good support for the most productive of monitors.

Partial foods have never shown or expressed that kind of success. Can you keep a monitor alive or produce for a limited time, I am sure you can. But is that a proper approach to teach a newbie that has a chance to become a good keeper?

Whole foods are by far the easist because they give you the confidence to not worry about diet. Partial foods are convenient, but are not easy, They are cheap, but not in the long run.

Frozen whole foods are cheap, but it may take a person to go out and purchase one of the tiny freezers, heck they are less then a $100 if you shop around, and even cheaper for a used one. With that little step taken, then whole foods becomes a whole lot more convenient. So now its cheap and convenient.

So now that I have explained why whole foods are better, why don't you try and explain why partial foods are better, and please use examples. thank you, FR

"There are many methods to give advice. There are many methods to keeping monitors. These two may or may not be related."

I dont give advise. I toss around ideas. I am not one to dictate anything to anybody. What they chose to do, is up to them.

"There are also some basic ideas, like. Where a newbie asks advice, its because they lack experience. With that in mind, do you want to offer something that is very hard to do and requires experience? Or do you want to offer advice that is dependable and works easily and with a margin of error?"

No reason they cant learn.

"In this case, whole food items. like mice, are tested, proven and work with a margin of error. Partial foods are poor and often depend on the expertise of the keeper. The keeper must read the monitor and understand when to add/subtract, change, quit using, offer suppliments, etc. Also it depends on the keepers ability to make and continue making partial foods."

Agreed.

"With whole foods, the new keeper can concentrate on learning other parts of husbandry. Whole foods are not only a good support for a pet monitor, but a good support for the most productive of monitors."

Agreed.

"Partial foods have never shown or expressed that kind of success. Can you keep a monitor alive or produce for a limited time, I am sure you can. But is that a proper approach to teach a newbie that has a chance to become a good keeper?"

Im not in the buisness of teaching newbies. Sure, the rodent diet is very sucessful, I was simply saying that its not the ONLY way. I wouldnt feed anything but rodents (along with crix/ roaches as fillers). But, Im aware that its not the ONLY method that has been successful.

"Whole foods are by far the easist because they give you the confidence to not worry about diet. Partial foods are convenient, but are not easy, They are cheap, but not in the long run.

Frozen whole foods are cheap, but it may take a person to go out and purchase one of the tiny freezers, heck they are less then a $100 if you shop around, and even cheaper for a used one. With that little step taken, then whole foods becomes a whole lot more convenient. So now its cheap and convenient."

Agreed. I even said that they are more convenient in MY post.

"So now that I have explained why whole foods are better, why don't you try and explain why partial foods are better, and please use examples. thank you, FR"

I NEVER said they were BETTER. I just said that there is more then one way to skin a cat. Dogma comes in many forms. You preach about people thinking for themselves etc., but all I see is mini franks running around. -Which isnt a horrible thing, considering the achievements youve made in the monitor breeding industry, BUT, DOGMA is DOGMA.

Following the example of those who have more experience is probably a very good idea, especially when you are very new. However, the potential side effect of this behaviour is lazyness, and losing the ability to think for oneself. A person should keep their eyes and ears open at all times. Considering other possibilities, regardless if they end up choosing to use them, is besides the point. Awareness is priceless.

In conclusion, FR, my post was NOT a comparison of whole prey vs. non-whole prey, as an effective food staple for varanus. It was merely a reflection on the idea that there are various methods of feeding, and simply because a person isnt feeding an exclusive whole- prey based diet, doesnt mean that they are commiting some sort of ultimate evil.

Consider, by responding to a question, you are offering your recomendation, which by difinition is advice. If you listed a bunch of options, then it would be a choice. I fully understand, no one is forcing or even recomending anyone to follow advice. Unfortunately, many here somehow feel the need to follow any and all advice, right wrong or indifferent. Even if we only offer suggestions, its not always taken it that way, as you can easily see.

You said,No reason they cant learn. This is your response to giving good advice? Why not offer them something thats dependable, then they can learn the many areas of husbandry that newbies struggle with. Why give them advice or options that will cause failures thru trial and error. Sir, thats the difference between good advice and poor advice. One works the other needs work.

You said, Im not in the buisness of teaching newbies. Sure, the rodent diet is very sucessful, I was simply saying that its not the ONLY way. I wouldnt feed anything but rodents (along with crix/ roaches as fillers). But, Im aware that its not the ONLY method that has been successful.

Then why are you responding to their posts and offerring opinion? Then you go on to say how successful a whole food diet is. How odd. Also, because the questions normally start with, can I feed, turkey, canned monitor supreme, etc. The beginers already know they have options, what they are asking is, what is the benefits of a certain diet. Which you already explained to me, but not to the one asking the question.

You said, NEVER said they were BETTER. I just said that there is more then one way to skin a cat. Dogma comes in many forms. You preach about people thinking for themselves etc., but all I see is mini franks running around. Which isnt a horrible thing, considering the achievements youve made in the monitor breeding industry, BUT, DOGMA is DOGMA.

Wow, that indeed expresses some hidden feelings of insecurity. You would rather they be Mini-monitor killers, then mini me's? Also, as far as I can tell, if a mini me is someone who is successful, thats better then a mini unsuccessful.

About being about me. You do not know me, not in the least, so how could you say what you say. That is pure ignorance.

The very sad part is, the monitor world is so full of poor husbandry, that anything to help it catch up to the other areas of herp keeping is very needed. Not giving questionable advice.

Also, much of what you say here is kinda, mini me, so how bad is that? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

The responsibility of having experience is, when statements are made here that are not so good, I feel I must offer other choices. This allows for more choices and possibly a better choice. I do not feel a responsibility to offer poorer choices when good recomendations are givin. Therefore offering a range of poorer choices. Do you???

And your last paragraph you saidFIn conclusion, FR, my post was NOT a comparison of whole prey vs. non-whole prey, as an effective food staple for varanus. It was merely a reflection on the idea that there are various methods of feeding, and simply because a person isnt feeding an exclusive whole- prey based diet, doesnt mean that they are commiting some sort of ultimate evil. I get the feeling the ultimate evil is only in your head.

In your context, evil and good are a range of husbandry choices, kinda like successful and unsuccessful. I would think one would recomend trying to stay on the good successful side as much as possible. I do understand, that both, good and evil, successful and unsuccessful, are part of keeping monitors on a daily basis. FR

IBTL

but you responded to the original question, you stated an opinion, I countered with another opinion, and I asked for you to support your original statement, from that point on, you made the thread worthless.

Please consider, if you want a meaningful thread, you must include something meaningful. I merely asked for you to support your opinion. How hard is that? FR

but going by all of the questions that you have posted over the past two weeks or so, and by the fact that your timor monitor is failing/crashing, I think it is clear that you do not have a good enough understanding of monitors to be handing out such advice(poor/harmful advice at that).

Now, instead of just you yourself having bad husbandry/an unhealthy monitor, you are telling people to use the same bad husbandry that is causing such problems with your own captive...

I would hold off on the 'giving advice' aspect of the fora until you gain a reasonable understanding of monitors and their needs in captivity; until then, I'd work more on the asking questions/testing your own methods on your own....

FEED WHOLE FOOD ITEMS MICE RATS CHICKS WHATEVER YOUR MONITOR WILL EAT BUT ONLY WHOLE FOOD.THIS OTHER STUFF YOU HEAR IS CRAP. Whole food items have everything in them you monitor needs to be healthy and happy unless it is small enought to have only bugs then make sure to dust them as they need more calcium then they will get from bugs alone. You can feed them a treat of something like boiled eggs and such but they do not need anything more then rodents to live happy lives. and as far as varity goes they could care less as long as it is food and there is pleanty of it they don't much care if it is the same thing every day or if you give them 55 differant choices.

Shawn
0.1 Blue Spot Timor