Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've had a good year over here and these are the results.

Adult male Fuego w/ normal female (I suspect the het form of a co-dom).

Adult female co-dom Anery (the super form)

Hatchling Fuego w/ sibling

Hatchling Fuego w/ normal sister from "04"

Co-dom Anery (het. form, notice very high blushing)

A het. co-dom Anery Fuego

A het. co-dom Anery Fuego (pictured with het. co-dom Anery and normal)

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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

Sorry never heard of them.. Ron
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The Crawl Space

A new morph I was happy to prove out this year.

>>Sorry never heard of them.. Ron
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>>The Crawl Space
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

I cannot tell the difference between any of those snakes, they all look normal except the adult "anery" and I have seen many snakes that light but it is nice...What's a fuego ball? Really those other snakes look very normal.....just my two cents, good luck with them i guess

Sorry for the bad pics, they don't really show the true colors, but I'll explain. The Fuego is a light yellow ball python very similar to the "fire" and Amir's co-dom hypo. The founding male was imported as a hatchling in 2003 and exhibited abberant coloration. He has a clear belly, light eyes, jungle patterning, light head, small amount of blushing, extremly pale yellow coloration, and large amounts of reduced patterning towards his tail. I expect him to prove co-dom and he male be compatible with other lines. He was bred to several females this year (including the Anery), resulting in 4 Fuego's, 1 cross, and 5 co-dom Anery's.

The hatchling Fuego's came out better then expected. I wish I could get true pics of their coloration, my flash keeps taking out most of it. They are a bright orange, reduced tails, clear belly's, light head, light eyes, extremely clean pattern, light head, blushing, and an abberant pattern. The should pale out over the next coming months.

The co-dom Anery's, they are not the most abberant of hatchlings, no more then a yellow-belly is. They do however show a very high degree of "flames" going up their sides and a very interesting belly. They do not match any ball python I've seen, but are not that interesting in their own right. I'll bred the cross male back to the mother next year, it should be interesting.

As for the cross, wow! He popped out bright pink and yellow, extremely clean sides, jungle pattern, reduced head, clear belly, etc.

>>I cannot tell the difference between any of those snakes, they all look normal except the adult "anery" and I have seen many snakes that light but it is nice...What's a fuego ball? Really those other snakes look very normal.....just my two cents, good luck with them i guess
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

Are all of the fuegos directly related? If not, breeding two together would most likely turn out very intersting. But it will probably be at least two years to get a female 05 to sufficient weight, maybe more.

All my Fuegos stemmed from the founding male. Hopefully I'll get an "05" female to weight within a few years, only hatched out one female this time around.

>>Are all of the fuegos directly related? If not, breeding two together would most likely turn out very intersting. But it will probably be at least two years to get a female 05 to sufficient weight, maybe more.
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

I dont see any anerys except for the adult, how can you say its co-dom if none of the babies you produced where anery. Do you have pics of the whole clutch, the last pic was different snakes, one looked like it just hatched where as the other in the right looked at least a month old. I am very confussed on what you are trying to say, To be a morph it needs to be proven at least 2-3 years, and i personally dont think you have proved anything other then the fact that you have a bunch of pretty normals.

The only Anery is the adult female. All of her offspring are "visable hets" with abberant patterns, high blushing, clear bellies, etc.

As for the last pic, it the smallest snakes where clutch mates, and the larger one was an unrealted juv. I don't have pics of the whole clutch but would be more then happy to take a few. As for bring a new morph taking 2-3 years, I've already proven the Fuego through multiple clutches. I think it's funny how a well known breeder produced offspring this year that look exactly like mine going under the name "flame/co-dom hypo", and everyone had nothing but praise to give to him. A little bias based on politics, ehh? I've been working on this project for a few years, and I finally have something to how for it.

>>I dont see any anerys except for the adult, how can you say its co-dom if none of the babies you produced where anery. Do you have pics of the whole clutch, the last pic was different snakes, one looked like it just hatched where as the other in the right looked at least a month old. I am very confussed on what you are trying to say, To be a morph it needs to be proven at least 2-3 years, and i personally dont think you have proved anything other then the fact that you have a bunch of pretty normals.
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

Well, the fires are visable het for Lucys. Im just saying you cant say that they are visible hets unless you have something other then them to show for it. If you breed 2 of them together and get a super, or a lucy if they are flames or fires, then thats awesome... and congrats. But you cant say that they are co-dom untill genetics and time prove other wise. I have been working with balls for years, and i have had many females make weird looking offspring for more then one year in a row but i cant say its genetic, b/c i havent proved anything. The reason why people praise the fires is b/c of what it produces. And yes i know very well that politics in the ball trade, well suck. But thats just the way that it works i guess, and sometimes it is unfortunate. But anyway i wish you the best of luck. Hopefully next year you can prove out a super and prove me worng.

Right now I've proved the Fuego's dom, I suspect there will be a super, we'll see. I've produced Fuegos in two clutches, by two seperate females this year.

I'm saying the Anery is imcomplete dom (what people call co-dom), based on the offspring she produced for me, including a Fuego cross this year.

Not what on earth is wrong with anything I've stated?

>>Well, the fires are visable het for Lucys. Im just saying you cant say that they are visible hets unless you have something other then them to show for it. If you breed 2 of them together and get a super, or a lucy if they are flames or fires, then thats awesome... and congrats. But you cant say that they are co-dom untill genetics and time prove other wise. I have been working with balls for years, and i have had many females make weird looking offspring for more then one year in a row but i cant say its genetic, b/c i havent proved anything. The reason why people praise the fires is b/c of what it produces. And yes i know very well that politics in the ball trade, well suck. But thats just the way that it works i guess, and sometimes it is unfortunate. But anyway i wish you the best of luck. Hopefully next year you can prove out a super and prove me worng.
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

The only thing i was saying is if i had a nice looking snake and bred it to a ghost. Then i posted pics of nice looking aberant snakes, i would not say that i have a co-dom ghost, just b/c i have aberant babies does not mean it is co-dom. it is only co-dom untill the babies are bred back to the ghost to produce ghost, and in that case all the aberant babies would have to produce ghost. Ghost is a resessive trait as with anery. I saw the pics and i do not see any animals that look different then normals. I have one female i know of in particular that i bred to a 100% het Orange ghost a few years back. She produced reduced patterns with a lot of orange and yellow, they almost looked like pastels to someone who didnt know the difference. I bred her to an orange ghost last year, anf got the same results. That does not mean theat my ghost line is co-dom. I have held back her offspring and bred the reduced patterns back to her and i have gotten the same results, nice looking snakes. If you havent bred back your offspring to the snery mom you cant say it is co-dom. All i am saying is you need alot more proof you need to examine all of your options. I porved out my own morph this year, also a co-dom. But i have babies that look like the original male and supers from the same parents. i also have been proving it for 3 1/2 years before i released it to the public and even at that i never posted a forum i just talked to alot of the bigger breeders i know. Like you said politics suck ... im just saying watch out what you say. If you do have something prove it out. OInce the gene is fuly explored then offer it to the public. But honestly from my point of view it dosent look like you understand genetics.. Do you have any other morphs other then the snakes you have posted? How long have you been in to balls for? Do you have a buisness of is this a hobby for you. I am not trying to critizie you but i have been though this before and i am just trying to help you. If you show the animal the animals a better way you may have many more people interested.

>>The only thing i was saying is if i had a nice looking snake and bred it to a ghost. Then i posted pics of nice looking aberant snakes, i would not say that i have a co-dom ghost, just b/c i have aberant babies does not mean it is co-dom. it is only co-dom untill the babies are bred back to the ghost to produce ghost, and in that case all the aberant babies would have to produce ghost. Ghost is a resessive trait as with anery. I saw the pics and i do not see any animals that look different then normals. I have one female i know of in particular that i bred to a 100% het Orange ghost a few years back. She produced reduced patterns with a lot of orange and yellow, they almost looked like pastels to someone who didnt know the difference. I bred her to an orange ghost last year, anf got the same results. That does not mean theat my ghost line is co-dom. I have held back her offspring and bred the reduced patterns back to her and i have gotten the same results, nice looking snakes. If you havent bred back your offspring to the snery mom you cant say it is co-dom. All i am saying is you need alot more proof you need to examine all of your options. I porved out my own morph this year, also a co-dom. But i have babies that look like the original male and supers from the same parents. i also have been proving it for 3 1/2 years before i released it to the public and even at that i never posted a forum i just talked to alot of the bigger breeders i know. Like you said politics suck ... im just saying watch out what you say. If you do have something prove it out. OInce the gene is fuly explored then offer it to the public. But honestly from my point of view it dosent look like you understand genetics.. Do you have any other morphs other then the snakes you have posted? How long have you been in to balls for? Do you have a buisness of is this a hobby for you. I am not trying to critizie you but i have been though this before and i am just trying to help you. If you show the animal the animals a better way you may have many more people interested.
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)