Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi.
Please help clear up a bit of confusion for me. I did search for the answer before posting this question.

Are the Black pastel, Cinnamon pastel and Red Axanthic the same snake with different names.......similar snakes......or completely different???
Thanks very much.

Brian

The Black Pastel and Cinnamon Pastel are outwardly very similar and seem to be the same. Breeding two black pastels together yields a very dark almost black snake (hence the name), while breeding two cinnamon pastels together yields more of a chocolate color snake.

Now they may be the same morph and the differences being that the black pastel is more black due to a polygenic factor caused by line breeding. I believe it was BHB who crossed a black pastel and a cinnamon and got a black snake. The only way I see that this could be disproven is if a homo black pastel is bred to a homo cinnamon pastel and then their offspring bred to normals. If any normals pop out, then they are 2 different morphs.

Red axanthics are different. The het red axanthics look similar to the cinnamon or black pastel, but the homo red axanthics look like an axanthic and not a solid black/brown snake.

Hope this helps.

Matt

the labrynth from gulf coast was the first line to create the "black" ball. below is a pic of a baby black they produced last yr and had on display at the tampa show. Josh Hutto

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2.1 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2)
1.0 het albino (ben siegel)
1.0 het citrus hypo(gulf coast line)
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
6 white eggs from pastel to norm breeding
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

to produce them. Look at the hets from those breedings and you'll see what I mean.

Cool A** Pic!
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OZZYBOIDS

The black pastels and the cinnamons are the same genetic mutation, but the blacks consistently produce black and gold animals, while the cinnamons produce .. well, cinnamon. Black Pastel Pic below:

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Al Zulich
Harford Reptile
www.pythons.com

I'll try to sum it up best I can and make it brief:

Regular Axanthic: (SK, Joliff, and VPI lines, maybe more out there that have been proven)

Simple recessive genetics, homozygous animals are lacking in yellow pigments, meaning the animal appears especially when young to be black,grey, and white only.

Red Axanthic: (Corey Woods line only proven genetic as far as I know, RDR reptiles working with line as well)

Incomplete Co-Dominant, heterozygous animals show a difference from wild type although they still retain amounts of yellow pigment, most show black backing to some degree, homozygous animals lack yellow, but still retain amounts of red, making them appear different that a regular type axanthic. Homozygous animals also all have black back appearance.

Cinnamon/Black Pastels: (many bloodlines available, to many to keep track of)

Incomplete Co-Dominant, Heterozygous animals show same characteristic heads, varying amounts of red/yellow/black pigments, all have the same brown faded colored head. Homozygous animals range from a "black" animal to a "cinnamon" colored animal. These animals are not lacking in yellow pigment at all as a true axanthic is. Rather they are somewhat more along the lines of hypermelanism, an increase in the amount of black present in the animal.

There is also a pattern mutation inherent in them, or rather I should say lack of pattern. The difference between the black and cinnamon lines ( this is only my personal opinion as the breedings to prove this have not been done extensively yet) is not in the gene affecting the melanin in the animal, but in a seperate gene controlling the amount of yellow in the animal (black = less yellow, cinnamon = normal amount of yellow)

Well, it ended up longer than I expected, hope this helps.

Dan