Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Side note to anyone follwing the TTO Acrochord research project metnioned hear previously. It has been discovered that carbon filters efficiently filter out TTO and that many novaqua water balance products help counter its PH effects. I found TTO should bring a desired 8.2 PH when used in the correct dossage. I have used this PH number to measure if there is suffiecient TTO in the water. I use no other PH balancers and am trying to devise more accurate ways to measure the TTO in water, but PH has worked thus far. I am currently in the process of raising a black bark tea tree which TTO is derived from. I will be measuring the PH of the water that passes through and resides around the trees root structure. Research continues...

Goodness, I'm never going to get away from sounding like the bad guy here. The question I have is, how in the heck does the TTO raise the pH? Now I have my theory, and it has to do with water low in hardness as well as the amount of oxygen in the water. What species are you keeping again? The only specimens I can think of that would benifit from such a high pH would be brackish water species. Also, using the same mode of thinking, meausring the pH around the roots, you should notice a pH drop at night plant starts to use of the available oxygen in the water, while releasing CO2.

P.S. I'm looking into using a product called "KoiZyme" to prevent infections in aquatic snakes. It's been used on fish for a while and seems to work quite well.

>>Side note to anyone follwing the TTO Acrochord research project metnioned hear previously. It has been discovered that carbon filters efficiently filter out TTO and that many novaqua water balance products help counter its PH effects. I found TTO should bring a desired 8.2 PH when used in the correct dossage. I have used this PH number to measure if there is suffiecient TTO in the water. I use no other PH balancers and am trying to devise more accurate ways to measure the TTO in water, but PH has worked thus far. I am currently in the process of raising a black bark tea tree which TTO is derived from. I will be measuring the PH of the water that passes through and resides around the trees root structure. Research continues...
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

TTO naturually contains an extremely large amount of Tanic Acid. Although aquarium modified versions such as Melafix have less acid, TTO still has some. Of course I keep high acidity in my Acrochords aquarium since it is a semi-brakish tank. They live in mangrove estuaries hence a more acidic brakish enviroment.

What is the main ingredient in that pond product? I have been using pimenta racemosa on a natida taxisplota with minimal success. Let me know.
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1.0 Javan Wart Snake
1.1 Emerald Tree Boa
1.1 Malaysian Blood Python
1.2 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.2 Pastel Red Tail Boas
2.5 Ball Python
1.0 Albino Retic
0.1 Tiger Retic
1.0 Indonesian Tree boa
1.0 Macklotts Python
1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
1.2 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.0.1 Queen Snake
0.0.1 Florida Banded Water Snake
0.0.1 Costa Rican Parrot Snake
0.0.2 Desert Night Snake
0.1 Mangrove Snake
1.0 Western Hognose Snake
1.2 Western Shovel Nose snake
1.0 Mendota King Snake
0.0.1 Mohave Side Winder
0.1 Neon Cape Gopher
1.0 Newport Phase King
1.0 Blood Red Corn
1.0 Oketee Corn
0.1 Creamsicle corn
0.1 Anery Corn
0.1 Reverse Oketee
0.1 Pewter Corn
0.1 Secret F1 Corn
0.1 Apricot Pueblan Milk
2.4 Albino Natida King
1.2 Albino Conjuncta King
1.1 Desert Banded Gecko
1.1 Central American Banded Gecko
1.1 Tibetan Frog Eye Gecko
1.1 Dwarf Dune Gecko

Wait, are you trying to lower he pH with tanic acid? At a pH of 8.2 I would stress that your water is not acid, it's quite alkaline. Which is what you should want with a brackish water species, for the water to be alkaline.

As or the main ingredient in Koi-Zyme, all I can tell you is that it is a "good" bacteria that is supposed to out compete Aeromonas and Pseudomonas bacteria. I've used it in koi ponds with huge success, so I figured I'd give it a try with snakes.

>>TTO naturually contains an extremely large amount of Tanic Acid. Although aquarium modified versions such as Melafix have less acid, TTO still has some. Of course I keep high acidity in my Acrochords aquarium since it is a semi-brakish tank. They live in mangrove estuaries hence a more acidic brakish enviroment.
>>
>>What is the main ingredient in that pond product? I have been using pimenta racemosa on a natida taxisplota with minimal success. Let me know.
>>-----
>>1.0 Javan Wart Snake
>>1.1 Emerald Tree Boa
>>1.1 Malaysian Blood Python
>>1.2 Sumatran Blood Pythons
>>1.2 Pastel Red Tail Boas
>>2.5 Ball Python
>>1.0 Albino Retic
>>0.1 Tiger Retic
>>1.0 Indonesian Tree boa
>>1.0 Macklotts Python
>>1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
>>1.2 Kenyan Sand Boa
>>0.0.1 Queen Snake
>>0.0.1 Florida Banded Water Snake
>>0.0.1 Costa Rican Parrot Snake
>>0.0.2 Desert Night Snake
>>0.1 Mangrove Snake
>>1.0 Western Hognose Snake
>>1.2 Western Shovel Nose snake
>>1.0 Mendota King Snake
>>0.0.1 Mohave Side Winder
>>0.1 Neon Cape Gopher
>>1.0 Newport Phase King
>>1.0 Blood Red Corn
>>1.0 Oketee Corn
>>0.1 Creamsicle corn
>>0.1 Anery Corn
>>0.1 Reverse Oketee
>>0.1 Pewter Corn
>>0.1 Secret F1 Corn
>>0.1 Apricot Pueblan Milk
>>2.4 Albino Natida King
>>1.2 Albino Conjuncta King
>>1.1 Desert Banded Gecko
>>1.1 Central American Banded Gecko
>>1.1 Tibetan Frog Eye Gecko
>>1.1 Dwarf Dune Gecko
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

I think he has his PH scale upsided down.

I think so, too.

>>I think he has his PH scale upsided down.
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

The "positive bacteria" is an enzyme that not so much affects the fish as it does the water quality. It is similar to the enzyme found in many stress coat, novaqua, etc products and does little on fungal infections if anything at all. It has proven useless in the fight against fish ailments such as ick and others. As far as the PH goes tanic acid is found in TTO. Although Melanocus grows in brackish areas, it is a very acidic tree and the TTO it releases has many complex acids with in it. I am experimenting with Ph levels and trying to mimic these east pacific estuaries with heavey melanous growth.
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1.0 Javan Wart Snake
1.1 Emerald Tree Boa
1.1 Malaysian Blood Python
1.2 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.2 Pastel Red Tail Boas
2.5 Ball Python
1.0 Albino Retic
0.1 Tiger Retic
1.0 Indonesian Tree boa
1.0 Macklotts Python
1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
1.2 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.0.1 Queen Snake
0.0.1 Florida Banded Water Snake
0.0.1 Costa Rican Parrot Snake
0.0.2 Desert Night Snake
0.1 Mangrove Snake
1.0 Western Hognose Snake
1.2 Western Shovel Nose snake
1.0 Mendota King Snake
0.0.1 Mohave Side Winder
0.1 Neon Cape Gopher
1.0 Newport Phase King
1.0 Blood Red Corn
1.0 Oketee Corn
0.1 Creamsicle corn
0.1 Anery Corn
0.1 Reverse Oketee
0.1 Pewter Corn
0.1 Secret F1 Corn
0.1 Apricot Pueblan Milk
2.4 Albino Natida King
1.2 Albino Conjuncta King
1.1 Desert Banded Gecko
1.1 Central American Banded Gecko
1.1 Tibetan Frog Eye Gecko
1.1 Dwarf Dune Gecko

No, this product is a bit different and does not include nitrifing bacteria. Also, why does everyone think it is a fungal infection? I've had problems with aquatic snakes and every time it's been Aeromonas and Pseudomonas bacteria, not fungi! In fact, very little aquatic infections are fungal. Several authors misquote bacteria and parasitic infections as fungal in popular aquarium lit.

Also, nitrifing bacteria have proven to help treat ick and most common infections in fish. It's called water quality. If it's poor you're opening you fish to infection. That's why so many new aquarists have problems with parasitic infections.

As for TTO being acidic, I believe it. I can't think of a plant that is not acidic in nature. Well, maybe some species of marine alage w/ high amounts of calacium carbonate. As the plant or it's parts decomposs, it releases tanic acid. Heck, I use peat moss to keep the pH down in my Erpeton aquariums. With that being said, brackish water species need a alkaline pH around 8.2-9.2, not an acidic pH. Maybe you got confused?

>>The "positive bacteria" is an enzyme that not so much affects the fish as it does the water quality. It is similar to the enzyme found in many stress coat, novaqua, etc products and does little on fungal infections if anything at all. It has proven useless in the fight against fish ailments such as ick and others. As far as the PH goes tanic acid is found in TTO. Although Melanocus grows in brackish areas, it is a very acidic tree and the TTO it releases has many complex acids with in it. I am experimenting with Ph levels and trying to mimic these east pacific estuaries with heavey melanous growth.
>>-----
>>1.0 Javan Wart Snake
>>1.1 Emerald Tree Boa
>>1.1 Malaysian Blood Python
>>1.2 Sumatran Blood Pythons
>>1.2 Pastel Red Tail Boas
>>2.5 Ball Python
>>1.0 Albino Retic
>>0.1 Tiger Retic
>>1.0 Indonesian Tree boa
>>1.0 Macklotts Python
>>1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
>>1.2 Kenyan Sand Boa
>>0.0.1 Queen Snake
>>0.0.1 Florida Banded Water Snake
>>0.0.1 Costa Rican Parrot Snake
>>0.0.2 Desert Night Snake
>>0.1 Mangrove Snake
>>1.0 Western Hognose Snake
>>1.2 Western Shovel Nose snake
>>1.0 Mendota King Snake
>>0.0.1 Mohave Side Winder
>>0.1 Neon Cape Gopher
>>1.0 Newport Phase King
>>1.0 Blood Red Corn
>>1.0 Oketee Corn
>>0.1 Creamsicle corn
>>0.1 Anery Corn
>>0.1 Reverse Oketee
>>0.1 Pewter Corn
>>0.1 Secret F1 Corn
>>0.1 Apricot Pueblan Milk
>>2.4 Albino Natida King
>>1.2 Albino Conjuncta King
>>1.1 Desert Banded Gecko
>>1.1 Central American Banded Gecko
>>1.1 Tibetan Frog Eye Gecko
>>1.1 Dwarf Dune Gecko
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

http://www.koizyme.com/HowLymnoworks.html
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

TTO has Global Research going on and has had it for some time now. Initially, it just appears to be another "cure-all" snake oil (pun intended), but it may turn out to be one of nature's magic bullets. It has enough potential positive benefits across-the-board to have taken the global research community by storm.

"Also, why does everyone think it is a fungal infection?" What makes you think that its Not? From the literature that I've read NO ONE knows exactly what it is, and the "Herpetologist" have not taken the time to find out. It may be bacterial, viral or fungal---who knows? So, that said: Koizyme will be of little use if the "White Spot" is not Aeromonas or Psuedomonas based. However, I applaud Your thought and effort in trying to locate something that may help these animals live a long life in captivity. Koizyme may be the ticket, or it may turn out to be benefical in a large way.

I am just speculating, but it seems to me that all the people who have kept these snakes successfully have them in environments that in one way or another are antifungal. People have been successful with pond water, which is abundant in algae and other micro organisms that would out compete fungus. Likewise with well established tanks showing algae growth. People have also been successful with adding tanic acid to the tank, another antifungal agent. Ph doesn't seem to matter. I've talk to a few people who have kept them at much higher then the recommended 6.0. Ammonia may also be an issue, but not likely to be the cause of the white spots, mine got the white spots even while being kept at a ph of 6.0 and lower where ammonia is neutralized.

I am wondering if we are mixing apples and oranges here.

I keep an Acrochordus arafurae.
snakemastermyke keeps an Acrochordus javanicus.
I believe Rick and Justyn's main focus has been Erpeton tentaculatum.

The A. arafurae and the A.javanicus are similar, and at this point I am not sure what the differences are, if any, in their housing.

My A.arafurae is doing fine in husbandry that is not suitable for E. tentaculatum--from what I understand.

From what I have read on the internet--the internet herp community tries to mix ALL aquatic snakes under the same husbandry guidelines---Which is flat out incorrect.

So, things like a low ph, algae growth, etc may apply to E. tentaculatum, but it doesn't necessarily apply to any thing else. My A.arafura is doing fine with no algae growth and a ph that isn't all that low---it stays above 7.0.

So, if we are going to discuss husbandry---then we need to pick a snake and not just mix them up as though they all need the same husbandry.

I appreciate your in put, but I feel like you are basing your knowledge of acrochordus on you basic knowledge of nerodia, or Erpeton and I can tell you that they have little in common with acrochord as far as skin conditions go. Have you ever kept Acrochordus? If so how long did they live. Was your water quality right. Now that they are dead what do you think you did wrong. (I am assuming, but with the history of these animals its usually a good assumption.) Must have been something. Mine is still alive and has been for some time, I believe that my TTO trials could possibly be the reason. The only thing I definetly know is that something is going right whether I know what it is yet or not. Now I am no expert on Erpeton skin conditions so what you say on them could be 100% the truth. I kept a pair a few years ago and had no infections of any type, and this was probably due to my water quality and algea growth. Remember this Acrochordidae is not a colubrid like erpeton, and we must realize that this animal presents new territory in many ways.

I've kept several species of Acrochordus (Acrochordus granulatus and Acrochordus javanicus) over the years, even had a few produce offspring for me (A. javanicus). I like to say I've had good luck at keeping them, seeing how I've had a survial rate of about 70% for fresh imports. I'm not new to aquatic snakes, I've kept Erpeton, Acrochordus, Enhydris, Nerodia, & Laticauda. I even plan to set up some Pelamis platura this year.

I've always treated these guys are highly delicate tropical fish, and so far I've had good success. Would you like to see pics of my CB babies?

>>I appreciate your in put, but I feel like you are basing your knowledge of acrochordus on you basic knowledge of nerodia, or Erpeton and I can tell you that they have little in common with acrochord as far as skin conditions go. Have you ever kept Acrochordus? If so how long did they live. Was your water quality right. Now that they are dead what do you think you did wrong. (I am assuming, but with the history of these animals its usually a good assumption.) Must have been something. Mine is still alive and has been for some time, I believe that my TTO trials could possibly be the reason. The only thing I definetly know is that something is going right whether I know what it is yet or not. Now I am no expert on Erpeton skin conditions so what you say on them could be 100% the truth. I kept a pair a few years ago and had no infections of any type, and this was probably due to my water quality and algea growth. Remember this Acrochordidae is not a colubrid like erpeton, and we must realize that this animal presents new territory in many ways.
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Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

Wow absolutly. I would love to see some pictures. BTW have you read the other posts written on TTO in this forum. If so what are your thoughts. Lastly do you have any Acrochordus for sale?
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1.0 Javan Wart Snake
1.1 Emerald Tree Boa
1.1 Malaysian Blood Python
1.2 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.2 Pastel Red Tail Boas
2.5 Ball Python
1.0 Albino Retic
0.1 Tiger Retic
1.0 Indonesian Tree boa
1.0 Macklotts Python
1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
1.2 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.0.1 Queen Snake
0.0.1 Florida Banded Water Snake
0.0.1 Costa Rican Parrot Snake
0.0.2 Desert Night Snake
0.1 Mangrove Snake
1.0 Western Hognose Snake
1.2 Western Shovel Nose snake
1.0 Mendota King Snake
0.0.1 Mohave Side Winder
0.1 Neon Cape Gopher
1.0 Newport Phase King
1.0 Blood Red Corn
1.0 Oketee Corn
0.1 Creamsicle corn
0.1 Anery Corn
0.1 Reverse Oketee
0.1 Pewter Corn
0.1 Secret F1 Corn
0.1 Apricot Pueblan Milk
2.4 Albino Natida King
1.2 Albino Conjuncta King
1.1 Desert Banded Gecko
1.1 Central American Banded Gecko
1.1 Tibetan Frog Eye Gecko
1.1 Dwarf Dune Gecko

Bieng a certified diver and having heard of Pelamis platura venturing to areas where one with proper ambitions might be able to aquire them I have had similar hopes of captive propigation. This is another subject for another time, but keep me updated on that project. I would love to learn from your experiences on that one.

True, I was talking about tentacleds and making the assumption that the white spot illness, is the same.

So you can all make your own conclusions I will soon be posting a long photo series of Acrochordus "asian syndrom" (the current term for this condition). I took the pictures on a 32mm for clarity so I will have to scan them. I will post them soon. I will also post a series on two different treatments. One will show a picture timeline of salt treatment, and the other will show a TTO treatment. You will see what I have been raving about in due time. Then everyone can make thier own conclusions.