Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I went in to petco today to purchase some feeders for my snakes. (that is about all i buy there). THis is the petco i used to work at, so one of my past co workers (he is a really good guy and hates the place about as much as i did when i worked there) was telling me about the idiocy of the associates that work there. I guess that a few days back he had lost almost and entire shippment of GTfrogs and half of the whites they had there becase someone didnt read the spray bottles and decided to spray them down with cleaning chemicals. SO, as we were looking through the frogs, i found one that was still alive, but not looking well. So my friend let me take him home. So her ei am now with a whites that has the follwing symptome:

he has no coordination, he moves in circles
his eyes are dialated quite large
he seems weak but not hopeless.

i understand that these symptoms are synnonimous with pin worms, but in seeing the others in the enclosure (and knowing that they come from sandfire farms) i am assuuming that it is brain dammage due to teh chems.

Presently, i have the poor bugger in a small round encloseure with a small waterdish and a dish of frogmoss. The substrate is paper towel for now.

I have soaked him in a water solution with reptisafe aqua conditioner, stress coat, and some activated carbon.

I am going to heat up his enclosure a bit to simmulate a bit of a fever. This helps with other reptiles too.

When i worked at petco this happened before, and the vet said there wasnt much they could do.

If you have ANY info or tips, please please help. I want to save this little one. Thank you!

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"Brains for dinner, brains for lunch. Brains for breakfast, brains for brunch. Brains for every single meal; why can't we have some GUTS?"-Misfits

1.0 ball python- Azazel
1.0 red blood python-Hiss
1.0 peach phase thayeri-Sancho
0.1 creamsicle corn- Pandora
0.1 partial stripe ghost corn- Raven
1.0 Sunglow motley corn-Ernie
1.1 hognose- Pricilla and Odd
0.2 leos- Boji and Kodama
0.1 beardie- Indie
1.0 BTS- Griffon
0.1 Iggy- Sunny
0.1 pacific parrolet- Mishka
1.1 cats- Cairo and Oberon

There's lots that can be done, all supportive, but the size of the patient is a real inhibitor, he aint no iguana. Cost may be another factor.

Ideally: You immediately rinse off the frog with a fine warm water mister for 10-15minutes. A fever won't help because this isn't an infectious disease, temperatures in the higher end of normal is okay (not the basking temps... don't want to cook the frog... aim for 78F...measure humidity, keep it high!). You find a better herp vet overnight, take the frog there for fluid therapy (intraosseous probably, but intraperitoneal is second best)and hospitalization. The vet may be able to treat the symptoms while the frog works on excreting the toxin. Bloodwork (very hard getting a sample from a frog, but not impossible)should be monitored to watch liver and kidney function. These organs will be working very hard to get rid of the toxin. Symptomatic treatment can be attempted to soothe any chemical burns to the skin, in the mean time, everything should be kept as sterile as possible as the skin has been compromised.

Secondary:If cost is an issue or you cannot find a vet willing to attempt the above (or their own interpretation of the above, they're the vet, not me), begin as above by rinsing the skin and keeping the temps and humidity as described. Consider using moistened gauze instead of the moss. If fresh, the moss shouldn't be that terrible though. This frog needs time. No food for 12-18hours, and if no vomiting you can try feeding (I doubt that it will take prey, so you can syringe it Hills a/d ~1ml) every eight hours after as long vomiting doesn't arise. Make sure the frog can swallow when attempting the feedings, if not, then a feeding tube/cathetor should be used. Seek out an experienced person for this.

If the symptoms progress, this frog is suffering, or the possibility of it's recovery is no longer reasonable, then take the guy to the vet to be euthanized. Nearly all methods of "putting down" a herp at home are inhumane, and the few acceptable methods should only be done by trained people. (ie, vets, techs, or people with a laboratory background)

Good luck with your new frog!
Ian

Thank you so much. There are no real herp vets around here that will do the fluid therapy...the only one that treats reptiles is the one that said nothing could be done for them a while back.
I had put him in a bit of a small rain chamber for a few hours yesterday. Some of my books said that a continous flow of fresh water would help flush the system. I had to be careful bnecause he had a hard time keeping his head up. His coloration did improve tho, and his eyes look a little bit better than they did.
I guess that this incident happened a few days ago...So i hope that i get him in time.
Looking at him this morning he looks much better. I am going to pick up some hills at the vet after work today and begin the feeding. I have syringe fed many a sick animal back in my petco days, so this should be fine.
Thank you so much for your suggestions. I really appreciate it. I will keep you posted on him!
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"Brains for dinner, brains for lunch. Brains for breakfast, brains for brunch. Brains for every single meal; why can't we have some GUTS?"-Misfits

1.0 ball python- Azazel
1.0 red blood python-Hiss
1.0 peach phase thayeri-Sancho
0.1 creamsicle corn- Pandora
0.1 partial stripe ghost corn- Raven
1.0 Sunglow motley corn-Ernie
1.1 hognose- Pricilla and Odd
0.2 leos- Boji and Kodama
0.1 beardie- Indie
1.0 BTS- Griffon
0.1 Iggy- Sunny
0.1 pacific parrolet- Mishka
1.1 cats- Cairo and Oberon

That sounds great, if there are signs of improvment, and the exposure was several days ago I think you may be seeing a good outcome. How are the neuro symptoms going? Any better? If alert and active this morning try a slow prey item like a waxworm first. If using the a/d, then make sure to add some water... a)for hydration b)you'll probably need it to help with the syringing process, esp. if using a tube.

Again, good luck, and do keep us posted

Ian