Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click here to visit Classifieds
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You

Rescued Crocs...Any photos?

goini04 Aug 20, 2005 09:59 AM

Hello all,

As some of you may know, I am designing a website to help promote the responsible keeping of the more dangerous species of herps (ie, Crocodilians, Large Constrictors, and Hots). One of the major things that I would like to cover is the amount of unwanted crocodilians that are constantly thrown around due to people not being prepared for their care.

I can yack all I want in print, but I personally feel that seeing it first hand in a picture or something helps people to understand a lot better. So I am hoping that perhaps some of the crocodilian rescuers in here might be able to help me out with a couple of pictures. Full credit will be given to you on my website...I promise.

Any help that you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

Replies (12)

John_White Aug 20, 2005 11:13 AM

Chris,

I'm not exactly sure what type of photos you're after. Do you want photos of health or developmental problems caused by neglect or improper husbandry? Photos of poor or improper enclosures?

John

goini04 Aug 20, 2005 01:07 PM

I was more referring to pictures of a bunch of crocs at a rescue or something of that sort that have been turned in because the owners can no longer care for them. However, everything that you mentioned below is DEFINITELY welcomed. Bill Moss has given me some photos of x-rays and such that are really helpful but the more the merrier! I am aiming to cover just about all aspects and the complicated I can show people these are to keep the better. The last thing I want to give the impression of is that these animals are "easy maintenance".

Basically these photos would be really helpful if anyone has some:

- Good/Bad indoor enclosures

- Good/Bad Outdoor enclosures

- illnesses/Deformities/Health problems that have occurred in crocodilians due to poor husbandry practices.

- Handling/Relocation pictures (such as mouth taping, restraining, etc.- I can have some pictures taken of me and mine with these practices, however since my alligators are a bit on the small side the impression just wont be made. My aim is to help people understand what they are looking at as an adult as well.).

- Growth Stages of American Alligators (this will just simply be the example croc, but it will be brought to attention that growth differences vary according to the animal)

- Anything else that you guys feel that I am missing

I would just like to make a quality website that has alot of information. OHHHH, another one. Being that here in Ohio we have a pet shop owner that recommends the "Maintenanced Diet" of crocodilians to reduce growth to make them more suitable pets, I would like to also include some photos/documentation of exactly what that can do to the animal. Hopefully, here in my state I can help to reduce the amount of "pet" alligators purchased because of this misconception.

Sooo, once again if you guys have any documentation, pictures or anything at all that might be of help to me to achieve my goal it would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post.

Thanks,

Chris

Dewback Aug 20, 2005 01:17 PM

Did you see the pictures that are currently on the alligator board? I think its the second topic. That is a really good example of what unsanitary conditions can lead to.
-----

1.1 Womas, 1.0 Australian Olive Python, 1.0 Centralian Carpet Python, 1.0 Jungle Carpet Python, 1.1 Cape York Spotted Pythons, 1.0 Australian Water Python, 1.0 Albino Green Burmese, 1.1 Loxocemus bicolor (New World "Pythons" ), 1.2 Peruvian Red-Tail Boas, 2.1 Hog Island Boas, 0.1 Belem Brazilian Red- Tail Boa, 0.0.1 North American Wood Turtle, 0.0.2 European Pond Turtles, 1.0 Leucistic Alligator Snapper, 0.0.1 FL Red Belly, 0.0.1 Concentric Diamondback Terrapin, 1.3 Crested Geckos, 1.0 Yellow Ackie, 1.0 Yellow Bearded Dragon

goini04 Aug 20, 2005 01:46 PM

The skin problem gator? If so yeah I just saw that. Looks pretty bad. I would like to contact the owner of the pic and ask if I could use it, however if he/she is the owner then they might take offense, so I guess it's best to just accept offering. I certainly dont wish to offend anyone.

Thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps I can probe the poster and get some more information.

Thanks,

Chris

>>Did you see the pictures that are currently on the alligator board? I think its the second topic. That is a really good example of what unsanitary conditions can lead to.
>>-----
>>
>>1.1 Womas, 1.0 Australian Olive Python, 1.0 Centralian Carpet Python, 1.0 Jungle Carpet Python, 1.1 Cape York Spotted Pythons, 1.0 Australian Water Python, 1.0 Albino Green Burmese, 1.1 Loxocemus bicolor (New World "Pythons" ), 1.2 Peruvian Red-Tail Boas, 2.1 Hog Island Boas, 0.1 Belem Brazilian Red- Tail Boa, 0.0.1 North American Wood Turtle, 0.0.2 European Pond Turtles, 1.0 Leucistic Alligator Snapper, 0.0.1 FL Red Belly, 0.0.1 Concentric Diamondback Terrapin, 1.3 Crested Geckos, 1.0 Yellow Ackie, 1.0 Yellow Bearded Dragon
>>

Dewback Aug 20, 2005 06:17 PM

yes, those are the pics I was referring to. That alligator is a rescued animal. The person who posted those pics took that animal in after they saw how bad his health and living conditions were. Those would be great additions to your project if you can get permission to use the photos.
-----

1.1 Womas, 1.0 Australian Olive Python, 1.0 Centralian Carpet Python, 1.0 Jungle Carpet Python, 1.1 Cape York Spotted Pythons, 1.0 Australian Water Python, 1.0 Albino Green Burmese, 1.1 Loxocemus bicolor (New World "Pythons" ), 1.2 Peruvian Red-Tail Boas, 2.1 Hog Island Boas, 0.1 Belem Brazilian Red- Tail Boa, 0.0.1 North American Wood Turtle, 0.0.2 European Pond Turtles, 1.0 Leucistic Alligator Snapper, 0.0.1 FL Red Belly, 0.0.1 Concentric Diamondback Terrapin, 1.3 Crested Geckos, 1.0 Yellow Ackie, 1.0 Yellow Bearded Dragon

goini04 Aug 20, 2005 07:09 PM

COOL! So it was rescued. Awesome! I will send him and email and request permissions.

Thanks for the info.

Chris

>>yes, those are the pics I was referring to. That alligator is a rescued animal. The person who posted those pics took that animal in after they saw how bad his health and living conditions were. Those would be great additions to your project if you can get permission to use the photos.
>>-----
>>
>>1.1 Womas, 1.0 Australian Olive Python, 1.0 Centralian Carpet Python, 1.0 Jungle Carpet Python, 1.1 Cape York Spotted Pythons, 1.0 Australian Water Python, 1.0 Albino Green Burmese, 1.1 Loxocemus bicolor (New World "Pythons" ), 1.2 Peruvian Red-Tail Boas, 2.1 Hog Island Boas, 0.1 Belem Brazilian Red- Tail Boa, 0.0.1 North American Wood Turtle, 0.0.2 European Pond Turtles, 1.0 Leucistic Alligator Snapper, 0.0.1 FL Red Belly, 0.0.1 Concentric Diamondback Terrapin, 1.3 Crested Geckos, 1.0 Yellow Ackie, 1.0 Yellow Bearded Dragon
>>

Aug 20, 2005 01:21 PM

Attached are "this week"'english-language with photo/video news items on this subject ... you have to go to the originating URL for the pics though.
And of course, we're waiting on photos of the crocs that's being stalked outside of Los Angeles ...
Chris: How far back in the archives are we supposed to go?
respects ... Wes

NEWS TRIBUNE (Tacoma, Washington) 20 August 05 Freedom ends for escaped caiman (Paul Sand)
Sketch’s 24 hours of fame are over. The 4-foot-long female caiman – a kind of miniature alligator-looking reptile – eluded officials from the Pierce County Sheriff’s Office and the state Department of Fish and Wildlife.
She had hidden out since Wednesday afternoon in a stormwater retention pond behind a new housing development south of Puyallup.
But she was caught Thursday after county and state officials spent hours sweeping the waist-deep, 100-foot-long pond with netting and, eventually, a backpack electric fish shocker.
About a dozen residents and even some construction workers building a nearby house gathered in the 16500 block of 129th Avenue Court East to monitor the hunt. They stood around the green, 6-foot-tall chain-link fence that ringed the pond and silently watched the half dozen men wade through the water.
The team finally captured the animal shortly before 5 p.m. after they subdued her with the shocker.
“I’ve never seen anything as crazy as this,” said Lorraine Smith, as she and her husband, Larry Herlinger, watched the capture. “We knew one of them was going to get out.”
Smith was referring to Sketch and her sister, Snatch.
Their owner, a 29-year-old man who did not want his name used in this story, lives about a block from the pond. He said he bought Sketch and Snatch more than seven years ago at a pet store in Milton.
Sketch escaped Sunday afternoon when the man cleaned the reptiles’ 8-by-10-foot pen in his yard, which boasts a 220-gallon pond.
“I pretty much set her free without realizing it,” he said.
Umberto Mancini spotted Sketch about 3:30 p.m. Wednesday. Mancini, 64, was planting a Japanese maple tree in his backyard that overlooks the pond. Rabbits and ducks are plentiful in his backyard and near the pond, but the 4-foot reptile caught his eye.
“I said, ‘Oh, wait a minute. Let’s add this one to the list’ of animals,” Mancini said.
He called 911, and officials began to scour the water, looking for Sketch. Thursday, after they had Sketch secured in an animal control vehicle, they collected Snatch from the man.
He does not have permits to own the animals in Pierce County, but officials haven’t cited him for the incident, said Sgt. Ted Jackson of the Department of Fish and Wildlife. The case is under investigation and has been turned over to the Pierce County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office, he said.
The two reptiles spent Thursday night at the Humane Society in Tacoma, said Brian Boman, an animal control official in the sheriff’s department. Today, an official from the Pacific Northwest Herpetological Society is set to pick them up and likely will place them in an animal refuge or zoo, Boman said.
Jennifer Graff, who lives in the housing development, watched the search with her 6-year-old daughter, Leah, for a few hours with an amused look.
“I’d rather have this neighborhood’s claim to fame be some little guy inside a fence than something else,” she said.
Exotic pet rules: To protect native wildlife and habitat, Washington bans importing certain animals but leaves regulating exotic animals kept as pets to local jurisdictions.
Here are the rules for unincorporated Pierce County and some local cities:
Unincorporated Pierce County: Illegal to own a lion, tiger, bear, chimpanzee, gorilla, cougar, badger, wolf, coyote, fox, lynx or any other “vicious or venomous/poisonous wild animal.”
Residents can own other exotic animals, including alligators and caimans, if they obtain a permit from the Tacoma-Pierce County Humane Society.
City of Tacoma: Illegal, in residential zones, to own a lion, tiger, bear, chimpanzee, gorilla, cougar, badger, wolf, coyote, fox, lynx or any venomous reptile or any other dangerous animal or reptile.
Such animals can be kept in other zones with a permit.
Puyallup: Generally illegal to own a venomous or constricting snake capable of inflicting serious harm or death to people; chimpanzees, gorillas and monkeys; bears; nondomesticated felines, including lions, tigers, cougars and bobcats; nondomesticated canines or their hybrids, including wolf and coyote hybrids; the order crocodilia, including alligators, crocodiles, caiman and gavials.
Residents who owned their pets before the law went into effect in 2000 can keep them if they register the animal with the city.
Lakewood: Illegal to own a venomous snake capable of inflicting serious harm or death to people; chimpanzees, gorillas and monkeys; bears; nondomestic felines, including lions, tigers, cougars, bobcats and lynx; nondomesticated canines, including wolves, coyotes and their hybrids; the order crocodilia, including alligators, crocodiles, caiman and gavials; any other nondomesticated animal that has demonstrated that it is a threat to the public.
Gig Harbor: Unavailable.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/5113602p-4655361c.html

DAILY NONPAREIL (Council Bluffs, Iowa) 19 August 05 C.L. alligator flourishing at Omaha zoo (Brien T. Boyce)
Omaha: The alligator that was captured twice in Carter Lake and was given to the Henry Doorly Zoo is still in quarantine, but officials say it's doing fine.
"He's doing great," said Jessi Krebs, a herpetologist and supervisor of reptiles and amphibians at the zoo.
The American Alligator was first sighted on the Memorial Day weekend. It was captured June 8, but disappeared the same day. It was recaptured July 9, and was turned over to the zoo.
Krebs said the alligator suffered wounds from the tape around its snout, had some fungal growth on its belly, and was very thin.
The snout wounds have almost healed, Krebs said, and the fungus is gone. As for the gator's appetite - "he's eating like a champ."
In the winter, an alligator's metabolism slows down, and can go months without eating. Krebs said an alligator can still slow down the burn on its fat reserves during the summer, and can go at least a month.
The Carter Lake gator was captured in time, Krebs said. The gator started using the fat reserves in its tail, which is one of the last reserves an alligator can use before it effectively starves to death.
As a result, the gator needs several more months in quarantine to gain sufficient weight to be put on display. The alligator will ultimately be put in with the 23 other American Alligators in the Bayou section of the Kingdoms Of The Night Exhibit.
Another alligator could be added to the Bayou exhibit in addition to the Carter Lake alligator. Krebs said the zoo is still holding the gator that was removed from an Avoca house earlier this month, and is waiting to find out whether it will stay or will be returned to its owner.
Many counties in Nebraska and Iowa have ordinances banning the ownership of dangerous animals. Krebs said that would certainly include an alligator, "considering they can get up to 14 feet long."
People don't think on a long-term basis when they purchase an alligator or other types of reptiles. "People believe they can take care of it," he said. "After the newness wears off, though, and usually after someone gets bit, then they want to get rid of the animal."
As a result, the zoo gets stuck with the animal, and doesn't always have space for it. While the zoo has space for alligators, it can't take other reptiles such as boa constrictors or pythons.
"We need to have space for animals that need conservation," he said.
Animals the zoo can't keep are put on a nationwide zoo surplus list, but many zoos across the United States have the same problem as the Henry Doorly Zoo.
"They're in the same boat in Detroit, St. Louis, and other zoos, where they have animals that they can't keep."
Sometimes, the only resort is to take the reptile to the local humane shelter, where it will probably be euthanized, Krebs said.
"That's such a waste to have to lose it," he said.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15064799&BRD=2703&PAG=461&dept_id=555107&rfi=6

WJAR (Providence, Rhode Island) 18 August 05 Exotic Animals Found In Apartment Along With Drugs, Guns
Environmental Officers Remove Crocodiles, Alligators
Lynn, Mass.: When police raided an apartment in Massachusetts, they expected to find guns and drugs. Even three snapping pit bulls weren't a huge surprise.
But what the officers never expected to find in the Lynn apartment were a 3-foot-long Nile crocodile, two baby alligators and a snapping turtle.
State environmental police were called in to carefully remove the reptiles. The crocodile and the alligators are illegal to own in Massachusetts without a special permit. The turtle might also be illegal if it's found to be an endangered species.
Exotic animals aside, Lynn police said Wednesday's raid netted heroin, cocaine, a semiautomatic assault pistol, a shotgun and a handgun.
Ramiro Jorge, 20, faces 10 charges for possession of drugs and weapons. He was ordered held without bail pending a dangerousness hearing.
http://www.turnto10.com/news/4869285/detail.html

WISH (Indianapolis, Indiana) 17 August 05 Greenwood Gator's Story Unfolds
It's been one week since animal control found a four-foot-long alligator in a Greenwood retention pond.
Many people have wondered; how did it end up there?
The gator's name is Akasha, she had been living in a ten by ten foot cage behind Cheryle Duguay's home. After seeing Akasha's picture in the morning paper last week, Duguay says she ran back to the cage to see if her gator was gone.
"My lock was missing and the only way you could get a pad lock off of there is to cut it. I don't know if somebody was playing a cruel joke, or being curious. Obviously they were being stupid," Duguay told News 8.
She says Akasha left the cage and began her trek out the back yard into a creek and finally to the retention pond about a quarter mile away.
"Obviously she made her way straight down to the creek. The creek runs right under the road and right to that pond," Duguay explained.
It took animal control hours to catch her, and didn't sit well with nearby residents. Duguay acknowledges that gators don't exactly make good pets and can be very dangerous.
When asked why does she do it? Duguay replied, "I love reptiles. I love the animals that everybody else is afraid of and mistreats."
But after this, she says she's all done with alligators, "I respect my community around me and how they feel and that the chance that this might happen again? I'm not going to take the chance that somebody might get hurt,"
"It's a little hard for me 'cause I know how much my mom loves these animals. And to see it taken from her? I don't know. It's kind hard for me," Duguay's daughter Jade explained.
Right now, Akasha's in the hands of an animal expert, who may use her for education around the state of Indiana. The owner has not been charged with any wrong-doing.
http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3730942&nav=0Ra7dPk6

Video link only
WNWO (Toledo, Ohio) 15 August 05 Gators Living With South Toledo Family
Toledo, Ohio: Police in South Toledo made a surprising discovery Monday. A family and children living with an army of reptiles including two alligators.
Experts say the baby American Alligators had the potential to grow to between seven and 12 feet long.
Police came to the house after getting an anonymous complaint. The children's mother told crews the reptiles belonged to her husband. She didn't want them.
"She said okay, take them. Just remove them. It's out of her hair. She's happy," explained Otto Rectenwald, Toledo Police Department.
In addition to the alligators, crews took three lizards and two snakes, including a python and a boa constrictor. Experts on scene at the 700 Block of Brighton Ave argued whether the gators were a potential danger to the block.
"You have to put that into perspective. These are baby American alligators. Baby American alligators are not dangerous animals," said Any Odum, Toledo Zoo.
Wildlife Unlimited animal handler Tom Griesinger is taking care of the Alligators. He says they are a growing danger.
"The longer they get the more dangerous they are and obviously the more harder they are to handle."
Police did not ticket the homeowner for keeping alligators illegally.
http://www.wnwo.com/Global/story.asp?S=3725083

Aug 20, 2005 01:23 PM

Chris;
Jumped the gun ... sorry about that.
W

goini04 Aug 20, 2005 01:47 PM

the articles. I am sure I can still use the info though.

Thanks,

Chris

Tugi Aug 22, 2005 12:53 PM

Here's "my" girl. She was in a classroom in a cage not even big enough for an igauna for 27 years. The teacher would just send her home with kids whenever it was summer. He didnt feed her properly, and as a result her lower jaw didnt grow properly and she has to be hand fed. The teacher transferred schools and didnt want her anymore, so gave her to some random guy who never had a reptile before. He build her a better cage, still too small. He couldnt keep her so she was given to a small whole-in-the-wall pet store as an attraction. She was totally lethargic when she first came to the store and you could vaccum around her. I started working at the store and fell in love with her. She recovered her health on a variety of pet store animals and was even morbidly obese. After the store went out of business we found a guy who wanted her who had lots of reptiles. He build her a *huge* indoor pond with a skylight to live out the rest of her days. Only at the age of 34 did she finally wind up in an appropriate home.

What anyone who wants one of these should know is that finding a GOOD HOME for a full sized caiman is near impossible. I spent countless hours calling zoo to zoo and reptile sanctuary and there is no place that wants them.
Image
-----
2 RES
1 Iguana
1 leucistic texas ratsnake
1 water dragon
1 mountain horned lizard
4 armadillo lizards
3 red sided skinks
2 Egyptian dune geckos
3 bullfrogs
1 dusky conure
3 australian shepherds
3 cats

Tugi Aug 22, 2005 12:55 PM

here's another pic

just let me know if you'd like more pictures
Image
-----
2 RES
1 Iguana
1 leucistic texas ratsnake
1 water dragon
1 mountain horned lizard
4 armadillo lizards
3 red sided skinks
2 Egyptian dune geckos
3 bullfrogs
1 dusky conure
3 australian shepherds
3 cats

goini04 Aug 22, 2005 02:29 PM

Hello,

Thank you for sharing this with me. Would you mind if I was to quote your exact post below on my website so that people can get a good idea of what goes on when people no longer want an animal such as this.

Thank you again for sharing.

Chris

P.S> Any other photos that you have would certainly be welcomed and appreciated.
(as per post below)

>>Here's "my" girl. She was in a classroom in a cage not even big enough for an igauna for 27 years. The teacher would just send her home with kids whenever it was summer. He didnt feed her properly, and as a result her lower jaw didnt grow properly and she has to be hand fed. The teacher transferred schools and didnt want her anymore, so gave her to some random guy who never had a reptile before. He build her a better cage, still too small. He couldnt keep her so she was given to a small whole-in-the-wall pet store as an attraction. She was totally lethargic when she first came to the store and you could vaccum around her. I started working at the store and fell in love with her. She recovered her health on a variety of pet store animals and was even morbidly obese. After the store went out of business we found a guy who wanted her who had lots of reptiles. He build her a *huge* indoor pond with a skylight to live out the rest of her days. Only at the age of 34 did she finally wind up in an appropriate home.
>>
>>What anyone who wants one of these should know is that finding a GOOD HOME for a full sized caiman is near impossible. I spent countless hours calling zoo to zoo and reptile sanctuary and there is no place that wants them.
>>232>-----
>>2 RES
>>1 Iguana
>>1 leucistic texas ratsnake
>>1 water dragon
>>1 mountain horned lizard
>>4 armadillo lizards
>>3 red sided skinks
>>2 Egyptian dune geckos
>>3 bullfrogs
>>1 dusky conure
>>3 australian shepherds
>>3 cats

Site Tools