Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Today I had an interesting conversation with a German breeder (Olaf Schal). He is in boas for 20 years and one of the few morph breeders in Germany (he produced the "three-tone-albino boas".

He has excellent contacts to famous morph breeders in the U.S. and a detailled knowledge as to the history of the morphs.

And guess what he told me:

The hypos were first produced by breeding a boa c. sabogae to a colombian boa. The offsprings were sold to Rich Ihle who worked with them. Rich Ihle had a better marketing talent as this breeder and hyped the hypos (*LOL*) to its current popularity.

Funny, isn't it? That's what I always supposed turned out to be true...

PS:
A side note to the new forum software: I still hate it. It spoils the fun of posting.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

And just for reference.... to give you half the benifit of the doubt... HOW does this guy know for a FACT that it was a Boa c. Sabogae difinitively from the Pearl Islands that was bred to a Colombian?

Please provide proof, and back it up with factual evidence. Otherwise please stop playing the same ol' broken record.

Jesse

The first hypos produced were from Dr. Hardy, shortly there after Rich sold an animal that turned out to be what we now know as the SALMON MATRIARCH. Anyone with access to the internet knows the story behing Rich's Salmon boas.

Quite talkin crap and do your locality stuff Hermann. This is soooooooooo old.
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There are no STUPID QUESTIONS just STUPID PEOPLE.....quoted by the common sense committee

... that Olaf Schal (who is a firm supported of morphs and longer in these business than most of you (including me) tell me that Dr. Whotitsname produced his hypos with a Boa c. sabogae?

He will have his sources to know this and he has absolutely NO reason to lie to me. In contrast, he should be a natural enemy to my since he is also in morphs AND he never heard from my assumption before.

Wake up and pull the wool out of your eyes that they stuffed in it with their fairy tales.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

Regardless of Olaf's contacts and knowledge of the morph industry, unless he knew the guy who collected for the chap who sold this boa the the Dr. at a train station in Gamboa, Panama, and have all these people to corraberate his story... then there is NO WAY for him to prove that it was a Sabogae.... That is unless he was the guy who was collecting for the chap.

What is so weird to me is how similar his thoughts on the subject seem to be to yours. The only fairy tail spun wool here seems to be coming from your side of the pond.

Break the paradigm.

This little guy could very well be from a completely Colombian descent. Truthfully... no one will ever know.

Jesse Van Atta
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"Continuing to cling to the patterns you know, inhibits your ability to discover what you don't know." - Eric Allenbaugh

Could be 100% Colombian.
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"Continuing to cling to the patterns you know, inhibits your ability to discover what you don't know." - Eric Allenbaugh

np
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"Continuing to cling to the patterns you know, inhibits your ability to discover what you don't know." - Eric Allenbaugh

http://www.theboaforum.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=boapics1;action=display;num=1014309917

You might find it interesting...

n/p
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There are no STUPID QUESTIONS just STUPID PEOPLE.....quoted by the common sense committee

Most of what the boaphile posted makes sense except for the part about how a population of hypos inhabited an island. It is very similiar to the hogg isle boa, in that it is a smaller boa with hypo characteristics on a solitary island. What came first the chicken or the egg?
What is so unbeleivable about someone breeding one of these smaller boas with hypo characteristics to mainland boa to make hypos, many are doing it right now by crossing hoggs with other localities. Anything is possible, but then again who cares?

Quite interesting to think that a simple intergradation would yield a dominating genetic mutation...what this essentially means,in a nutshell,is that the original wild type animal was a natural morphalogical mutation...the fact that the Central American boas were intergrated to other locality variants within the same subspecific genus,doesn't bother me,personally,in the least...but,I'm here to tell you...we're a LONG way from Panama now!
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EVOLVE,OR,DIE...it's not just a good idea...it's the LAW!

Syntax: Go to the "Boaphiles Web Site" check out the Facts - The History of the HYPO -Remember STOP SPREADING FEAR! THE Forum members here are not FOOLED! Good Day Richard

The replies to my posting made arise a little story in my mind:

There is a white female who gives birth to a black child. She is married to a white husband.

Someone comes and says: "Hey, the father of this child must be black".

Outcry!!!

Where is the proof??? Have you been present when they mated????
If not, just shut up! Do you know the exact name and adress of the black father??? If not you are wrong and have to shut up!!!

And now the acquaintances make up entertaining stories to explain why this child is black but on the other hand it is impossible that the father was also black.

They bash everyone who point out of the color of the skin of the child.

And furthermore, that such an event has occured is totally impossible...

... because nobody bred an occidentalis to an albino boa, nobody bred a surinam to an albino, nobody bred a surinam to a colombian imperator, nobody bred a hypo boa to a hog island boa,

nobody is a "let's-see-what-happens-when-I-mix-these-two-subspecies" breeder....

I WOULD LIKE TO STRESS THAT MY LITTLE STORY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACISM BECAUSE I RESPECT BLACK PEOPLE THE SAME WAY LIKE WHITE PEOPLE. I ALSO RESPECT MARRIAGES OF BLACK PEOPLE TO WHITE PEOPLE.
BUT IT SEEMED TO ME A GOOD WAY TO EXPLAIN THAT ONE HAS JUST TO OPEN HIS EYES AND LOOK AT THE HYPOS TO KNOW THE TRUTH!
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

It has become old hat to judge a book by its cover.... OR judge the Locality of a boa exclusively by looks alone. We would do so much better if we could just agree to disagree, and get back to enjoying our boas.

PEACE

Jesse Van Atta
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"Continuing to cling to the patterns you know, inhibits your ability to discover what you don't know." - Eric Allenbaugh

& it was got bt Dr. Hardy in Panama...........another crossbreed

I talked to a big breeder down here in kansas (horse breeder) and he knows his horses and horse parts and he said without a doubt, no possibitities otherwise..YOU ARE A HORSES ARSE!!! LOL...couldn't help it. meant no offense to you herman just the whole "and it seems I was correct the whole time" bit. You need to remember just because someone breeds boas doesn't mean he was the originator of every single morph out there, Leave hypos to be explained by Ihle and Gee, leave Pastels to be explained by Ronne, and leave Motleys to be explained by Jeremy Stone, if you want that breeder to explain any morph have him explain that "new" tri colored albino if he is the originator. Later Randy T.
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You never experience life until you have kids..then you realize what you should have done rather then what you did do

The 1st Hyp was bought by Dr. Hardy. It was a CA out of Panama. Which means all these Hypos are,,,,,,,,,,,,,,CROSSES! Go to jeff Ronne,The Boaphiles site. He wrote an article called "The Histroy of Hyos" AND REMERMER the 2st procuded were CROSSES
Dave "the cossbreeder" @ East TN Reptiles
Home of the Hypo X Hpg Isle

1. The Pearl Islands are territory of Panama, so you are right.

2. The sabogae was crossed with a colombian boa, so all hypos are crosses. You are right again.

You see - we both agree completely.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

e mail me & I'll send ya the paper wotk on it. Dave

Thier 100% acurate. I know you LOVE a good argument...............this time I'm right. Is this why ya don't reply? Dave

text
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

He stared at that great looking,bright orange hypo cross and went blind.Shame on you.

If I remember correctly you once inferred on your site that nearly all of the Columbians that were in the U.S. had been "mutts" for years...that just certain snakes, those that were bought by people that you knew,who knew people who personally collected the animals,who then sold them to certain people,who were familiar with certain other people, who fingerprinted those people's contacts over "there", were "pure" Columbians.So... would that make nearly everyone(including those over "here" who tend to agree with nearly every word you say)over "here" the proud but somewhat misguided owners of mutt Columbians?.Over "here",but not over "there"? Once again I guess my question is...and??????..... which is really not a question unless you raise your voice at the end,so I raised my voice at the end of and making it very question-like,even though it isn't usually,but now is.

Now,we all know that concerning the locality specific imported animals,it is really a crapshoot.That is,once again,unless it is someone that YOU know,trust or believe in over "there"... with the exception of a few over
"here" that might know someone over "there" who knows someone over "here" who believes in those few over "there".And???(voice raised).

Now,concerning the HoggIsland Boas,it is a popular concept that nearly all of the larger Hoggs have some Columbian blood in them,therefore, if I am thinkly clearly(which is indeed doubtful),then is it remotely possible that some (all,none,or any combination?)of the Hoggs over"here" might also be mutts?So,if breeder A bought a Hogg off of the internet or at a show"here" a few years ago and breeds it with a Hogg that the next door neighbor bought off of the internet,then the offspring would be "pure" Hoggs,"possible pure Hoggs", or a "damned if I really know pure Hogg" ,(but I am sure gonna bitch about one that I know isn't a pure Hogg even if the guy admits it is not a pure Hogg).Now,if the offspring are sold as pure (as far as the seller knows) and breeder B crosses them with a hypo and advertises them as just that,which one is being perfectly honest? Both..neither...either,none of the above,the one that I agree or disagree with? Once again I ask: And?????(voice raised but throat getting sore).

Concerning the message that started the thread,if what you stated is true,and the source over "there"is correct,I ask again..and???? However,if the source isn't true and the inference that Rich Isle is a marketing shyster and a teller of tales has now been posted on an internet source,I wonder if the attornies are better over "there" than over "here" and if Otto is too thrilled that his name is now involved and if an LOL after the sentence implying his dishonesy is enough to make Rich laugh out loud...and I know that was one huge run-on sentence.

OK, my first thought on this post is simple…….So what! As a morpher I never claimed to have pure blooded locals, just really cool looking designer snake meant solely for the pet/Hobby trade. The fact that one line of Hypos is produced by Crossing an unrecognized sub-species together dose not personally concern me, nor do I think it should really concern much of the other Morph Breeders.
Now, my second thought is this……All hypo Boas DO NOT come from the same mother snake! There are multiple lines of Hypos out there. It is a fairly common trait. The Nicaraguan Boas that are imported in each year have a huge percentage of natural hypos in them. I purchased a Natural imported hypo Leticia Boa from Ben Siegel last year, and even though many may argue the fact that it is a Leticia local boa, what you can’t argue is the fact that it is an imported Hypo Boa of pure Blood, fresh out of the Jungles of South/Central America.
So the fact that some of the hypos were produced by crossing locals does not change the fact that many Hypos out there are not crosses. Either way I don’t think it makes much difference to those of us who like to work with the genetics to produce designer snakes.
I fail to see why, That the fact that Hermann is pointing out the crosses, has generated such a aggressively negative reply? Hermann, in his purest ways, is simply relaying a conversation that he had with a colleague of his in Germany…. It in no way makes the Salmon, Orange Tailed, Pastel Dreams, or High Pink Hypo Boas any less beautiful, does it?
Thanks for reading
Jim Hopkins

have with the post, and it is not my "problem", is that Otto what's his name mentioned this to Hermann,who then implies that through marketing savvy,Rich(whom I have never met in my life)capitalizes from this.It is the inference that Rich might have done something somewhat underhanded that makes the post somewhat controversial,not the fact that it is posted.I couldn't care less if that is exactly what happened.As you stated,who cares? I sure don't.A pretty animal(or ugly) that is represented honestly can, is all that any of us can really realistically expect...irregardless of whom it is that is stating what he (or she) has for sale.

However,the answer to "who cares" is that some people who are enamored with hypos(as I am)might now think twice about purchasing one...because it "could' be a dreaded cross...All because of something that Otto What's his face told Hermann.

The irony is that we may all have crosses that "we" think are pure, because we bought them from someone who thought they were pure."We" then turn around and blast someone who is selling a cross and representing it absolutely honestly.Once again,anyone has a right to post his or her opinions on this forum,as we are all just sitting around having a beer and shooting the s--t anyway,no matter what we like to think.Despite our differences,our arguements are mild compared to the sports forums that i have posted on for years.Those are something else.