Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I hav had a clutch of 26 hatch 3 weeks ago with some amazing results. I was told the eggs were reds and snows as i hatched them from someone elses breeding. When they hatched, 8 of them are really light colouring with clear nails and some nice red stripes on them. I wondered what they are as i dont want to let them go to people without me being able to tell them exactly what they are buying. I got this pic off the net and it says that it is a leucistic x hypo pastel and mine are exactly the same as this one but with more red colouring. What do you think people, let me know so i dont look a fool, lol.

This isn't helpful for you one bit but...

COOL! how interesting. I look forward to knowing as well.

Someone might still reply, but...

Send a few of those my way?

i dont know alot about morphs but i would guess at a hypo red?
just advertise them as snowxreds it'll be the truth. and you can send one over this way too. do you know how much your selling them for yet?

First of all
You can't compare you babies, with pics from the internet, because then your only looking at outside.
You still don't know what line, color, or genetic traits they have.

Second thing is that leucistic beardies haven't been proven yet.
The ones that you see in the market don't have the fenotype to match leucism.
They don't have black eyes, there is still a small amount of collorpigment present (wich leucistics shouldn't be able to produce at all), some don't even have clear nails!
They are hypomelanistics with probably another sort of genetic trait, but this doesn't makethem leucistic.

So if you've bought a so called leucistic and have babies from it and name them leucistic x ....is one thing, but to compare them with a pic off the internet is and then say they probably are leucistic x hypopastel is really not the correct way to determin what the babies are.

If you have the parents, then you will probably know where they came from and what line they came from, considering that they are linebred.
That is pretty much all you need to know, if you don't know this then there is no way you can put names as leucistic or hypored on the babies.
If they are hypomelanistic, just name them hypomelnistic.
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Well i dont care really i just think they are cool. Heres another pic of them. This time I took it MYSELF about 10 mins ago. Is that BETTER for you??

GAVSDRAGONS!

that picture isn't that great of a picture...i can tell that the baby is under a UVB fluorescent tube. there is way too much blue in the dragon to really see it's colors and whites.

and if i'm wrong...you are about to very rich...no blue dragons on the market yet.

you could always name them as hypomelanistic. I've noticed that the use of HYPO in hypomelenistic is ruining what most good breeders are producing as hypomelanistics. It seems that more other breeders are calling the NORMAL dragons as HYPOS. But, if you think about the team "hypo" just means that they have less melanin that normals.

Anyone care to invest some money on a home melanin test kit?

jake
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a free range dragon is a happy dragon

I can tell everyone here for a fact there is no tampering gone of with these pics and they have been taken outsice on the backyard in natural sunlight. So it just goes to show how much you know doesnt it. Look, i dont care what you lot want to call them, people can buy them as they see the pics so they know exactly what they are getting. If i was doing false advertising dont you think the people would see that when they came to buy them? I dont ship so they would have to.

"Look, i dont care what you lot want to call them, people can buy them as they see the pics so they know exactly what they are getting. If i was doing false advertising dont you think the people would see that when they came to buy them?"

I notice that you are calling them leucistic on your website. If you don't know what a leucistic is and you have to ask, you should not jump to that conclusion and call them that. Just tell the honest truth on your website. "These babies are from someone else's breeding and I was told they are red x snows. Aren't they beautiful?! Selling for only £65 - £70 what a great deal!"

Like you said, your customers will see them and if they like them they will buy them. Don't tack on a name like leucistic just because it looks like a picture on the internet. Leucistic is a touchy term anyways since as we know it there are currently no *real* leucistic bearded dragons... just marketed leucistics which normally go for around $500. I know you aren't intentionally false advertising, but if you start selling them as leucistics on your website when you don't know for certain, then that is false advertising. It's making them appear to be more valuable than they probably are. You don't want your customers to really think they are getting leucistics for such a great price and start breeding them and selling the babies for leucistic prices. That wouldn't be fair to them or their customers either.

I'm not judging you, I know you're a good person and would not intentionally decieve so please don't take me wrong. I just think you should just call them what you were told they are.... red x snow. They look more like snows/hypos to me than "leucistics" anyways.

Good luck.
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Amanda
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
1.0 pictus gecko (Nicodemus)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.1 ferreta (Playstation & Genesis)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

You got these eggs and the owner told you it was from a snow x red pairing and your advertizing them as "Below are our leucistic x red baby dragons- All of our leucistic dragons have clear nails". Thats from your website!!

They ARE NOT leucistic, they will not breed true and you are misleading people. They are Hypopastels, Hypomelanistic with clear nails.

Its things like this that do muck up the names and morphs of lines and any way you look at it is false advertizing. This is why so many people have become disgusted with new people in this industry. They are taking advantage of others when they misrepresent something that is not so.

BTW, they are nice Hypo, but thats all they are and hopefully most people will realize that and not be ripped off
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www.reptilerooms.com

I agree, i'm also getting a bit tired of al those people who call themself breeders when they don't know their genetics and keep selling hypomelanistics as leucistics.
I'm having a hard time getting people here in the netherlands to understand that they are hypomelanistic instead of leucistic.
And that leucism in beardies hasn't been proven.
They all think it's just a colour or a bloodline and that's the reason why they carry the name.

But while you're at it Chery, you might want to tackle some more people at the classifieds section LOL....just joking

kinda sad really
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Look, i am getting sick of you people telling others that they arent breeders and shouldnt breed. What right do you have to tell people what they can and cannot do? I posted an advert to get some advice from people on here as to what my dragons are so i can advertise them correctly and all you do is slag me off. All i want to do is give them a correct name but all you can do is sit and moan about breeders as usual. If you dont have anything helpfull to say and all you are going to do is moan then keep it to yourselfs please. Im not a bad person and everyone has to learn somewhere.

This post wasn't dircly at you Gavin, a ment it in general.

There are to many breeders that sell leucistics when they know ther arent't.
You didn't new this as a fact so my previous reply wasn't ment for you.
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Hey Duncan,
Very True!! Like you said there is No leucism in Beardies besides as a marketing tool!! When I cross my marketed Leucistics to My Super White Hypopastel!! I will let everybody know the bloodline and where they originated. They will also know that they are just an extreme non or reduced colored Hypopastel not Leucistics. I think Exteme Hypopastel would be more appropriate just to differentiate from the colored ones we see here now.
-Randy
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www.AlphaDragonZ.com

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Well you could name them that way.
But i just see those dragons as hypomelanistic apart from other unproven genetic traits they might have.
But if another type of hypomelanism pops up then i would most certainly give those another name then just hypomelanistic.

What i mean is that if you breed 2 true clearnailed hypomelanistics together and you get "normal" clutches, this would mean that their genetic makeup is different but they are both hypomelansisic.
That's when i would use a different name for them.

As for leucistics i would probably name them near white hypomelanistics or something like snow white hypomelanistic.
As far as i know the pastels originated from the sandfire ranch, so that would also be a misplaced name in my opinion.
But still better then leucistic, LOL!
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Well anyway, im not really too bothered i will take them off the site. But if i may say so, congratulations to me for ceating a massive talking point and debate, lol. Im off now to think of something else that will get you all hot and bothered. Laters.

Yeah it is a really hard situation. I did use Snow white pastel along with the bloodline but then people think that it is a Snow dragon crossed to a hypopastel. I think that people like white dragons especially white Hypopastels. If you called it white Hypopastels that would work but hmm sounds really bad. It is not just that it is a hypopastel, the goal of the White Hypopastels(marketed Lucys) is to be patternless with only white color therefore extreme pastel looks look a better term. The term extreme is not a genectic trait but a selective breeding trait and that is were the extreme comes in. Yes I agree no Lucy's!! it is just not right. People always ask about Leucistics and I tell them that I have Lucys but they are really just Really Really white hypopastels.
-Randy
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www.AlphaDragonZ.com

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8 out of the 26 babies that i have hatched turned out like this. they are under no special light or anything. Thats what they look like. I have actually had someone refer to them as " MINTY BLUE COLOUR"

Gavin,

I can't see the pics?? Are you hosting them on a site or here? Anyone else having this problem?
I did go to your website though, very nice babies...although I must concur that you should label them as hypos.
I don't think anyone is trying to rip on you dude, but they're such beautiful babies, just sell them for what they are. I seriously doubt that you're going to have a hard time selling them. If I had the space and the funds, and you weren't so far away, I'd be right in line for one. Such is life!

-Nicky
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Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you...

2.1 Bearded Dragons: Gordo, Layne, & Chiquita
2.4 Cats: Zeus, Remi, Kiki, Delilah, Sadie & Cheyenne
1.0 Betta: Mr. Purple

I can't see the pics either. Dreaded red X.

Nice.

You say 8 out of 26 dragons (25% roughly), that means that the parent are heterozygous for hypomelanistic and their nail colour is normal?...am i correct?
Between the others that look normal, a percentage is heterozygous also, just as the parents.
This might be something to keep in mind so you won't just sell them as complete "normals" but as possible hets
The only thing is that you can't tell from the outside which one is "normal" and which one is a het(erozygous) for hypomelanistic they all look the same.
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