Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This little guy was sold to me as a p. coronatum; he looks like p. platyrhinos to me! Any thoughts?

It is a platyrhinos. If the person was trying to sell you a coronatum, he/she was violating the laws that protect coronatum. If you a trying to buy a coronatum, shame on you too.

Lester G. Milroy III
Conservation Biologist

I think you had better not assume anything...

I stated what I was told he was...I disagreed on the matter and asked for verification on this forum...

I will, btw being notifying the shop of their mistake and inaccurate information...

Thank you.

Lester is a good friend he ment no harm, as a Biologist and professional in his field he of all poeple knows and understands the dynamics of poaching and illegal sales. There has been a rash of illegal and attempted illegal sales of Pacific Horned lizards this year, I'm sorry you might have been offended but on the other hand there are lots of indiscriminant sales of horned lizards to people who know nothing about them, they bring them home from some pet shop who knows nothing about them and in the end a month or two the horned lizard meets its demise. Surveying many of the lizards sold on the market has always come up with poor results for the most part. It is incumbent upon the person keeping horned lizards to feed them ants (there is no substitution) for good health, along with other various insects, but a pet shop should know better, and they certianly shouldn't be comfortable with selling a horned lizard if thier own understanding was that is was a California specie. I hope you see the other side, no one on this site is trying to put you down personally, but certianly if you read or follow this forum there is a lot of education going, and none of us can assume anyones experience or motives, so on Lesters behalf he read what you wrote and responded.....Again I appreciate the fact that you were concerned enough to seek out an answer--Cheers!!!!
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

A-C-T-U-A-L-L-Y . . . .I kinda liked Les' answer. I thought it was short and sweet . . .well, maybe not sweet ~ lol, but definitely short and to the point.

If the person was trying to sell you a coronatum, he/she was violating the laws that protect coronatum. If you a trying to buy a coronatum, shame on you too.

This is not the appropriate way to present yourself when a question is being asked on identification. I can understand being snippey if I were requesting to purchase a Coronatum...but I did not say that, now did I? I simply stated what I was told, provided my thoughts on it, and requested confirmation.

I personally did not have enough time prior to heading to work to give a full detailed description of my little Spike and how I got him...So I kept my post "short and sweet and to the point."

These Kingsnake.com forums contain rather unpleasent individuals...Whom jump to conclusions...

My comment stands. You stated "This little guy was sold to me as a p. coronatum" right? The person selling the horned lizard as a P. coronatum should have been challenged as to the ID and informed of the proper ID. Your purchase of the horned lizard identified as a P. coronatum has the hint of illegal trade. If you purchased the Desert Horned Lizard in California, where P. coronatum is native, that transaction is also illegal. DHLs are native species and are illegal in the pet trade or for sale.

If you think this is snippy or what, that is your interpretation. I gave you the ID and a little more info, nothing more. I even made a little of a jest in my comment, i.e. shame on you.

My job is to protect the species and to inform and educate the public as to the plight of horned lizards. The information on this forum over the years is information from my research, in the field and in captive study.

Lester G. Milroy III
Conservation Biologist

I agree with Les. In your original post you did say that the lizard was sold to you as a p. coronatum. No one but you knows if you identified it as a platyrhinos prior to the sale or after you got it home and did some research. You say you disagreed on the matter of identification, great, but IMHO you should have at least asked for verification prior to the purchase not after when it could have been confirmed that it was illegal purchase.

I agree. To buy something under the pretense of it being a P. coronatum even if you disagreed is still buying it under the stated assumption from the seller that it was a P. coronatum, which means you may have disagreed as to the species but you still bought it, as sold, a P. coronatum, which would have been illegal. (Man, I confused myself with that one but you know what I mean!) I'm all for being kind and mannerly in our approach with each other (been there ~ needed that) but when someone does something under the assumption that it is illegal I don't know if this is the place to find help.

Fortunately what you got is NOT illegal, just as you thought! So, that's really a good thing. Best of luck to you and your little guy (or gal!).

I did not even know how many sub-species of horned lizard were in existance until after I purchased Spike. I knew very well what he was and knew limited care requirements. My dad actually used to catch these lizards when he was growing up in Cali. Spike's the only reptile in my collection that he was impressed with, ironically.

I honestly didn't even know they were claiming him to be P. Coronatum until after I read the caresheet they sent along with him. Their was no way I was going to follow instructions from a pet store anyway...but I was curious what they had to say and compare it to information I found online. They recommended CalciSand for christ sake! Though A for them recommending UVB lighting and sending along a link to purchase ants.

BTW, how would I ask for verification on an animal I don't own??? I would have no way to photograph it to present to this forum.

I stand by MY comment that Les was very rude and presuming too much. Great way to present yourself in the hobby...

Everythings ok though...I will not be returning to this section of Kingsnake's forums...

I hate to see someone new to HL's leave the forum over a disagreement. I hope you'll reconsider. There is a lot of help to be had here and many friendly folks to boot.
Cheers!
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Phrynosoma.Com

I apologize for not replying. True to my word, I had not returned to this forum. I actually only returned because I needed to find out the scientific name of my little guy (more so the spelling *lol*). I'm doing a Beardie newsletter, and because I do not have any of my Dragons in fancy vivs and this is the first issue...I'm useing my Horny Toad's viv...

I appreciate the kind words. It seems that others could take some lessons on netiquette from you! I think I may surf around a bit on this forum to see what new information is available.

Spike btw, is doing wondefully...