Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everyone,

After a long talk with another crocodilian enthusiast we had gotten onto the subject of RI's. He was informed by his vet that air bubbles out of the eye's are forms (or indicators) of RI's in crocodilians. Now, the thing is that I notice mine doing it from time to time. However, it is typically when why give a really high intensity hiss. Is this truly an indicator or is this simply something that crocodilians can do in your opinions? Has anyone else ever noticed this in their own crocs? Other than that, no fluid or anything comes out of their noses nor do they give any indications of an RI. They are also not the first alligators I have seen do this, therefore that's the reason I never considered this as a possible problem.

Any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks,

Chris

I'm not a croc guy, and it will be a long time before I have the privelage of becoming one.

Here's what I do know. In most reptiles there is a nasolacrimal duct that drains tears into the nose. Normally this little bit of anatomy goes unnoticed, but occasionally becomes obviously apparent when something goes wrong. Bubbles in this area may indicate air being forced from the nose outwards the eye. This is generally abnormal, and indicative of a blockage/obstruction or congestion elsewhere. Perhaps in crocodilians this blockage is as simple as the tongue when aggressively vocalizing. I have seen male alligator mississipiensis (spelling)do the whole territorial bello and know it is a huge process!

While your vet has merit to what he/she said, I'm sure they would agree that this all has to be taken into prospective with how the croc is doing in general. When basking, can you see any abnormalities in the oral cavity? This is about as close to an oral exam as I'd like to get, how 'bout you?

Ian

Ian,

Thanks for your response. I have watched my alligators very closely since hearing of this. As of right this very moment both animals are basking. No fluid is being expelled through the nose or eyes. When I have one open it's mouth (usually my aggressive one, because I dont' have to try that hard), all teeth look in good shape and doesn't appear to have any abnormalities. Also, when they are in deep water they are perfectly stable. Typically, as described by Israel Dupont from Gatorland, a Crocodilians with an RI would not be able to move straight, due to the build up of air/fluid and the animal would become unbalanced. My animals move perfectly well, eat perfectly well, bask when appropriate and soak when appropriate.

Like I was saying in my previous post, I had seen alligators (and caiman as a matter of fact) do this when they are really pissed off, before I even obtained my alligators. They dont seem to do this regularly, it's just every once in a while if they were to give me a really high intensity hiss to tell me to leave them alone as they are not in the mood for my crap at the moment...lol.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,

Chris

>>I'm not a croc guy, and it will be a long time before I have the privelage of becoming one.
>>
>>Here's what I do know. In most reptiles there is a nasolacrimal duct that drains tears into the nose. Normally this little bit of anatomy goes unnoticed, but occasionally becomes obviously apparent when something goes wrong. Bubbles in this area may indicate air being forced from the nose outwards the eye. This is generally abnormal, and indicative of a blockage/obstruction or congestion elsewhere. Perhaps in crocodilians this blockage is as simple as the tongue when aggressively vocalizing. I have seen male alligator mississipiensis (spelling)do the whole territorial bello and know it is a huge process!
>>
>>While your vet has merit to what he/she said, I'm sure they would agree that this all has to be taken into prospective with how the croc is doing in general. When basking, can you see any abnormalities in the oral cavity? This is about as close to an oral exam as I'd like to get, how 'bout you?
>>
>>Ian

The passages are all interconnected in crocodilians (and to some degree, humans too) and it is absolutely normal to see bubbles comming from the eyes of a hissing alligator. Many people can blow bubble from their eyes as well by pinching the nose and blowing hard.

The above post is another summary of it all, meaning we have that much more consensus that this is normal in crocs.

Goini, I would like to add that when performing oral examinations, as well as the teeth, look for a smooth, clean, and normal colored mucous membrane (gums, tongue, soft palate ect.) It probably varies, but I believe that a pale yellow is normal in most crocs... understand what is normal for yours, as an increase in yellow colour is jaundice. Pale, white, grey or purple tinged gums is a very poor sign and a vet is needed asap. Obviously bleeding and/or rotting gums would need treatment as well, but is a less of an emergency. Other things to look for are abnormal swellings, growths, ulcers and foreign bodies.

It's great that your croc's are healthy, and that you have an interest in rehabilitation. I hope my tidbits of info come in handy for you in the future

Ian

Bill,

Thank you for clarifying that for me. I think now I can sleep better at night....lol. I appreciate your help.

Ian,

Thank you for the information you provided. It gives me something else to look at to make sure that my alligators stay healthy. I appreciate your responses.

Both,

Can any of you recommend any basic reptile biology books (hopefully that aren't too expensive)? I would appreciate it.

Best wishes,

Chris

Hmm, University libraries are a great source... vet clinics will have sources for you... most books (Mader is coming out with a new edition this fall I believe... a must have!) will be rather pricey, (say 250), but for the amount of information it's a bargain. It will be more medical related and directed towards veterinarians... anatomy books on reptiles are practically non-existent. The small amount in vet med. books are good, but small bits like the oral-nasal passages won't be there. Of interest, crocodilians are one of the very few reptiles with a diaphragm, albiet it's elementery structure.

Ian