Reptile & Amphibian Forums

heres a pic of my manakawari that escaped.i found him today after missing 3 weeks.hes only 16 months or so and already tons of bright blue!!!bright blue tiger stripes,diamonds and full doral stripe will he even develope more??hard to beleive.ill try and take a pic of his whole body when i get all the old shed off.he as sold as a manakawari but i think manakawari and sorongs are the same as i cant see any difference.

he as sold as a manakawari but i think manakawari and sorongs are the same as i cant see any difference.

He looks more like a manakawari to me... the two are different localaties... meaning they come from two different locations... withough proper documantation its about impossable to say which snake it might be, and even then its still a guessing game sometimes...

Shiloh
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Shiloh Hawkesworth
kansas
(Midwest Serpents)

well,iv yet to speak to someone who could explain the difference.manakawari and sorong are two towns that are not very far away from each other.i find it hard to believe that over a very short distace,with no mountains or water seperating the two,you can have two independant locales form.i think many of the various mainland locals are just names of towns that the snakes were found near,not really descriptions of new types.now aru,biak and these island forms,you can see a huge difference in look and behaviour.i just dont see much if any difference between most of the mainland forms.there are exceptions.i think a lot of these obscure locales are named by importers and breeders who wanna sell snakes because they know that new and exciting locales sell.now thats my take,if you see enough differences between snakes found a few miles apart,well more power to ya.i just dont find it likley.just out of curiosity,what about the picture i showed you made you think he was a manakawari,and not have features that many sorongs have?

just out of curiosity,what about the picture i showed you made you think he was a manakawari,and not have features that many sorongs have?

well judging by the looks of your snake i would guess it to be about 12-14 months... and because of the dorsal markings i would have to say i dont think it is a Sorong... I am sure you have seen several snake pics and its alot to swollow, but after a while you will be able to pick out a few different localaties... for example... Meg's snake looks like a Canary to me... Greg Schroeder and i had a long talk about this in chat a few weeks back and we both agree... its just something that comes with time...
i'm not saying that i know for sure that it is a manakawari... i am just saying it is more likely to be... well thats my opinion... maybe someone else can chime in and say something...

Shiloh

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Shiloh Hawkesworth
kansas
(Midwest Serpents)

there is no doubt that you know more,and have seen more snakes than me.its not that i was arguing with you,its just that,to me,i cannot yet see any difference.maybe as times goes on and i increase my collection ill be better able to pick out the subtle differences between the mainland forms.he was infact sold to me an a manakawari and he does look a lot like the manakawaris that i have seen,but then again,the only pictures of adult manakawaris that i have seen were the adult breeders pictures in the bushmaster indonesian farm gallery.they looked very nice but i have seen some sorongs that looked very similar.now as a neonate,well there was a very distigishable charactoristic that made all the manakawaris stand out from every other locale,including sorongs that i have seen.its hard to explain but the neonates had a sold black dorsal stripe that looked the same in all manakawari neonate photos i have seen.

oh yea,that and another thing,with my manakawari and every other one i have seen,they took a rather long time to change(14 months-2 years to change)and 6 months before changing,they stayed bright yellow but lost all darker markings as neonates.for the 6 months before turing green and blue,they look exactly like canary chondros.bright yellow with no other darker markings.im not sure how many other locales change this way but every manakawari i have seen did.

Shiloh,

What makes you think mine's a canary? Just curious? She has the dark tail of the Sarong, and yes, she's yellow, but she hasn't changed yet (I'm thinking she could take forever!). The other markings should go blue I hope.......

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1~Green tree python~Tempest
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

you dont have a canary meg.it was captive bred right??to tell you the truth,yours looks exactly like my manakawari and not at all like my sorong as a baby.if its not a sorong,ill bet its a manakawari.the way you can tell if its a manakawari is if,when it gets a bit older,it looses all its darker markings and actually looks all yellow like a canary and stays that way for about 3 months before changing.then,it will change in like 2 days from all yellow to green with lots of blue all over,and a full blue dorsal stripe.this looks a lot like a sorong but what i have noticed is,even though they both wind up looking the same,its the way they change that is different.my sorong changed kinda young(at around a year)and my manakawari(and every other one i know of) took almost 2 years and sometimes more to change.but when it decides to change,its done in less than a week.what makes me think yours is more manakawari looking is the dark,unbroken dorsal stripe.sorongs dont usually have that stripe,they have more scattered dark areas,not so connecting.if those dark areas fade and hes still yellow,ill bet hes a manakawari.if i were you id hope for manakawari.i like them better.hes my favorite chondro with my sorong a close second.they both have lots of blue but manakawaris are a lighter green.lookes nicer with the blue]

every snake has a different color change... their is no way to tell locality by color change... just ask Brandon Osborne or any other breeder... the snakes in the same clutch will all change at a different rate... some change overnight and some take a few months...
I have compaired the colors and looks Megs snake and i believe it is a Canary type... time will tell... the longer you are in the game the better you will be able to tell the difference in the locality... and sometimes it is uaually just a guess...
i dont know for sure that her snake is, but i am fairly sure that i will get to say... "told ya so" in a few months... LOL

have a good one..

Shiloh
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Shiloh Hawkesworth
kansas
(Midwest Serpents)

Well, she's a little over a year now. Can someone post a picture of a supposed Canary yearling so that I can see a comparison. I can find lots of Sarong and even biaks with the same markings as my snake. I thought Canary's were without pattern, just solid yellow. Mine has well defined markings.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1~Green tree python~Tempest
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

Oh, and she also has the dark Sarong tail as well.
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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1~Green tree python~Tempest
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

Meg we dont know what they look like before they change yellow, yours would be the first... assuming me and Greg are right...

Shiloh
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Shiloh Hawkesworth
kansas
(Midwest Serpents)

The big question is....why would I be sold a Canary for $400? The thing would be worth far more than that if it was. This is supposed to be a domestic captive bred animal and it's origins are supposed to be known. It wouldn't make any sense to sell what should be an expensive animal for a normal Sarong price. All the pictures of Canary's I could find have subdued or almost non-existant markings on them. Anyway, if she turned out to be a Canary, I suppose that would be nice, but not what I want. I truely want a very nice green Sarong type with blue. The high yellows and Canary's don't do a thing for me!

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1~Green tree python~Tempest
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

There have been a number imported that were still young enough to have their Juvenal markings heck there are a number of photos of them out there and I have some saved. Here are 3 photos of young yellow chondros can you tell with out hitting properties what local they are? I'll give you a hint their are Merauke's and Kafiau.

Shiloh I'd bet you a large sum that your wrong on Megs snake.Randy

>>Meg we dont know what they look like before they change yellow, yours would be the first... assuming me and Greg are right...
>>
>>
>>Shiloh
>>-----
>>Shiloh Hawkesworth
>>kansas
>>(Midwest Serpents)

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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty !
I just want the full glass I paid for !

couldn't remember how to get them all in one post lol

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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty !
I just want the full glass I paid for !

another

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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty !
I just want the full glass I paid for !

She has much more pronounced markings (except before shed). They are quite bright, not subdued or almost lacking like those three.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1~Green tree python~Tempest
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

You just hold down your control button when you pick more than one photo.
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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1~Green tree python~Tempest
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

BTW I think this first one is the Canary, the other two, the Merauke.

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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1~Green tree python~Tempest
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

Yep the first is a Kafiau or canary as some like to call them. The second is a Merauke baby one of mine, the third was represented as a Kafiau baby and last I heard was looking like one. It is so difficult to tell what local most babies are just by looking at them. We've all seen the post people make asking what local is this? If that baby was sold to you as a Sorong I don't see any reason to doubt it is. Randy

>>BTW I think this first one is the Canary, the other two, the Merauke.
>>
>>
>>-----
>>1.0~amel corn~C.S.
>>1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
>>0.1~Green tree python~Tempest
>>0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
>>1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
>>3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....
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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty !
I just want the full glass I paid for !

Not bad guesses for a beginner! I went online and looked up everything I could find with pictures of Canary's and they all looked pretty much like that first one. A few like the last. Very subdued markings and pretty brilliant yellow. Thanks for letting me know what they were though.
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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1~Green tree python~Tempest
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

Could say Biak type or Merauke type or whatever they all look pretty much the same. If I had to guess I'd say it isn't a Kafiau I've seem many adults and sub adults and a couple of youngsters, heads and bodies look different. Randy

>>every snake has a different color change... their is no way to tell locality by color change... just ask Brandon Osborne or any other breeder... the snakes in the same clutch will all change at a different rate... some change overnight and some take a few months...
>>I have compaired the colors and looks Megs snake and i believe it is a Canary type... time will tell... the longer you are in the game the better you will be able to tell the difference in the locality... and sometimes it is uaually just a guess...
>>i dont know for sure that her snake is, but i am fairly sure that i will get to say... "told ya so" in a few months... LOL
>>
>>have a good one..
>>
>>Shiloh
>>-----
>>Shiloh Hawkesworth
>>kansas
>>(Midwest Serpents)
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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty !
I just want the full glass I paid for !

its silly to say its a canary.i still havnt heard you say why it looks like one and not like a sorong.you only say that with experience ill be able to see it.i have raised 4 chondros,2 sorongs.i think i have experience with at least sorongs.both looked exactly like that!no difference i could see.and mine was over a year and a half before changing yellow.meg,dont let him deter you.there is no dou-bt that what you have is a sorong,or at the very least another mainland locale that will grow up to look very similar.its no biak,thats for sure at this age.i dont think its an aru either,the white spots usually begin to develop even before the green and they usually turn green by now.its crazy to think its a canary,so youre running out of ideas at this point other than a sorong or a couple others.besides,canaries as a locale dont exist.but thats another discussion

I am quite confident that she's a Sarong type. I was replying to the guy who posted the three Canary or other locale pictures. Time will tell, but I hope she has no yellow left on her! I want none!I have no problem with people wanting to lay bets and all though! Have at it
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1.0~amel corn~C.S.
1.3~Aztec Okeetee corns~Coatl,Maya,Acatl,Tepin
0.1~Green tree python~Tempest
0.2~Rhodesian Ridgebacks~Akilah, Ona
1.0~Black fat cat~Topper
3.0~Horses~Zaarah,Galliano,Achilles.....

I would have been stressed to if I had lost that!

Congrats!

Fred Albury

After reading your post on the shape he was in I expected the worst...he looks pretty good considering!

I bet you don't repeat the escape scenario, huh? *G*

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1.0.0 BP
1.1.0 Chondro