Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If someone buys a snake for lets say $10,000 shouldnt the seller step up to the plate and at least offer to pay the shipping?? I mean come on now, how would this sound to you,Mr.C im sending you $10,000 for your snake, ok but make sure you throw an extra $75 to cover shipping. what am I missing here, is it just me,hey if i get to the point where i can sell a snake for $5,000 ima try to help my new customer out and not hit them in the head for shipping, but hey thats me

.... a while ago - but honestly - if I'm spending that kind of cash for an animal - I think I'm flying there - picking it up and it's sitting next to me in first class all the way home. LOL - yer right - I think if its over $2K - seller should comp the shipping.
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Tosha

"One of these days i am going to wake up..look around...and realize my place looks more like "Ace Venturas"s than my own." Coldthumb

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope John Paul "JP"
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 lizard rescued from vicious feline

A great big DITTO on that. I breed a few high end chondros and I pay shipping on all of them. Most sell for $800-1500 ea. If someone is going to send me that kind of cash for a snake, I'm not going to bicker about $50-75 for shipping......even for a 3% paypal fee.

Brandon Osborne

Shipping for us on most domestic orders runs over $ 60.00 a box. International orders are substantially more. We will most likely ship over 1,000 boxes domestically. At $ 60.00 a box, which does not include the cost of the box, that is $ 60,000.00. Now a box here and a box there may not seem like a big deal to some, but when you add it up it is a lot of money. We must balance our expenses very carefully. There is a lot that goes into running a large breeding operation and we are not even that large. Expenses are huge and I know many of you think that it is no big deal for the seller to pay shipping, well, I can't remember the last time I bought snake cages and the seller paid the shipping, or rodents with the seller paying the shipping, or a car off of e-bay with the seller paying the shipping... Just my point of view.

Colette

But If the average price you are selling animals for is lets say even just $1,000 - $5,000 for 1,000 orders, then the total money you brought in was $1,000,000 - $5,000,000. Anyone making that kind of money can surely afford to pay for $60,000 in shipping charges. Just my observation as well.

Jeremy

Agreed, if I'm buying a snake for $1,000 or more I would expect shipping to be included as a courtesy.

I disagree, the buyer should always pay shipping, Out of $1,000,000 do you know how much they have to use to re-invest it into newer morphs, or the ammount of cash it would cost to run an operation like that? Also if your paying $5,000 whats another $75? Not much,
just my opinion
thanks
tony butler

If you sell a snake for $5,000 and have to pay $60 in shipping (as the seller), that's only 1.2%. If you can't figure 1% into your cost of doing business (freight by the way is considered a business expense), you need a different accountant. I run a business myself, and I know how quickly advertising, cost of goods, utilities, insurance and all the other overhead expenses add up. However, if you were to lay out your overall profit margin on a sale, I think most breeders would have to admit that they're doing pretty darn well. If they weren't, they wouldn't continue to breed and sell. The return on investment is quite good. Most of us realize that if we invest in only a few snakes, it costs a ton of money. But when we sell the first snake or two out of a clutch we have more than paid for our investment. For me $60-$75 will never break a deal, especially if I'm the seller. Just my thoughts....

True, Never thought about it like that, it seems to make alot of sense. I never thought about freight being a business expense.
thanks
tony butler

sell one platty baby for $25,000......

you have just made as much money as me and I have worked 40 hours a week ....for 48 weeks..........(4 weeks vacation)....

....and it is so much easier to just breed one snake than to work 40 hours........

I know....snakes are alot of work...but I'd rather do that full time and not punch a time clock too....

3 cents
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yes I would like 2 eggroll with that please...........................................

If you were to buy a prescription drug from an online or phone in pharmacy they ship you the drugs for free. That is on an item that is only between $25 - $125. Now the I know the shipping isn't $60 - $75 but it does cost more than 1% of the sale price. Most large comanies do that. For instance Dell, Toshiba, Canon etc... These are huge companies w/ shipping bills in the millions of dollars. But for great customer (not good customer service) they are willing to ship it at there cost.

I will still maintain that if you are selling high end animals for hundreds to thousands of dollars shipping should be paid by you. I would understand if you were selling $10 corn snakes or the like but for a piebald ball python you can my $60 shipping bill. LOL!!!

Jeremy

I agree with Colette. Boxes are expensive,Heat packs,Snake bags,and the cost of shipping itself is up there!
In my Opinion it should be the Buyers expense! I am no Big timer by any means YET! But All of the above mentioned material cost$$$.. So paying for shipping should be smiled upon!

On the other hand I guess We could all go buy the Boxes & Ect! then send it to the breeders.. LoL.. Mabey then Shipping would be FREE!

Isaac

"""We must balance our expenses very carefully"""

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tax writeoff?.........being a really nice seller?...................swimming pool?...........

..........1000 boxes.......???.........hmmmmmmmm

it's ok.....I'm just thinking out loud now.......

but I do agree with you on the part about other people doing you a favor..I know how that feels.....I pay extra for this and that and cut deals for wholesale pricings all the time.....it really does suck to be so nice .......and here in the east and not shipping the normsl at $25 suck too I guess........and yet I do get a few good deals from a few good people.........and they will be remembered .........

again........I am just thinking out loud........
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yes I would like 2 eggroll with that please...........................................

My advertisements read: "All sale prices include shipping."

Chris
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mean people suck

And the cost of boxes, insulation, and other materials are figured into the sale price, too.

Animal Shipping Supplies Miscellaneous Fees & Expenses = Asking Price

Chris
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mean people suck

Chris
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mean people suck

Everything you named is legally "expensable" as part of the cost of doing business. In addition, if you purchase a Spider ($5000) and a really nice Pastel ($2500) and you crank out a couple of Bumblebee is the first clutch (2 x $10,000); I think that's already a good return on investment. In addition, the next year if you turn out a couple more Bumblebees, you have no additional cost of acquisition!! Someone figure the profit margin for me and then tell me I should pay the freight as a buyer.

Okay, we are going to agree to disagree. Between 40% and 50% of every sale here goes to taxes, depends upon if it is a transaction in the state or out of the state. Taxes are also paid quarterly, so there must also be enough in the account to cover them. Then there is the percentage that goes into running the business, things like maintaining the rodents, water, power, supplies, new cages, new morph, shavings, hired help, advertising, etc. We need to set aside enough to cover these expenses. IF we paid all the shipping it would cost us well over 1% of our gross income. It would be more like 10% or more. That's fine, everyone feels like the "big breeders" are rolling in the $$ and can afford to kick back lots of things and I read many comments that infer this. We generally put in close to 16 hours a day. Sometimes I think many do not understand how much time, energy and expense goes into a larger operation. Everyone sees the price on the snake and automatically figures that the seller is making a killing...

Colette

I don't blame anyone for charging shipping costs. If I can sell an item (any item) to someone and I can make/save and extra $50 to $150 selling to them as opposed to selling to someone else, then I'd do it. Why would any one take less money when they don't have to?

I appreciate when someone throws in free shipping when I make a purchase but it is all a part of what the seller wants to get as a final price. Small to mid-sized breeders have to sell at a lower price because they don't have the reputation of the bigger breeders. They often offer free shipping as an incentive. To a small time buyer, this is an attractive offer. Getting the same morph as the big breeder is selling but at a reduced price can really help further their projects.

If the bigger breeders were having a difficult time moving their snakes, then they would lower the asking price or offer free shipping as an incentive. It is all about supply and demand.

>>Okay, we are going to agree to disagree. Between 40% and 50% of every sale here goes to taxes, depends upon if it is a transaction in the state or out of the state. Taxes are also paid quarterly, so there must also be enough in the account to cover them. Then there is the percentage that goes into running the business, things like maintaining the rodents, water, power, supplies, new cages, new morph, shavings, hired help, advertising, etc. We need to set aside enough to cover these expenses. IF we paid all the shipping it would cost us well over 1% of our gross income. It would be more like 10% or more. That's fine, everyone feels like the "big breeders" are rolling in the $$ and can afford to kick back lots of things and I read many comments that infer this. We generally put in close to 16 hours a day. Sometimes I think many do not understand how much time, energy and expense goes into a larger operation. Everyone sees the price on the snake and automatically figures that the seller is making a killing...
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>>Colette

Very well stated, as I fall into that "small time buyer" category.

oops...I didn't mean to speicifally quote Colette since my statement wasn't directly in response to her statement. I just had the quote option enabled in my profile. My statement was just meant as a general opinion of the situation.

Don't you hate it when you make a mistake while trying to fix a mistake? "specifically" was mispelled in my last post.

I certainly agree that it costs a lot of money to run any business, Colette. I know that as well as anyone. However, if you're paying between 40%-50% of gross sales in taxes alone, I would suggest you have a chat with your accountant. There is no way that tax on the sale of merchandise (regardless what type of merchandise it is) should run 40%! Regarding the other expenses that you listed "Then there is the percentage that goes into running the business, things like maintaining the rodents, water, power, supplies, new cages, new morph, shavings, hired help, advertising, etc.", most of these are tax deductable as operating expenses. These are fees and costs that you incur as necessary evils in operating your business. These expenses are then listed as "deductable" against the tax you owe.

No one would ever argue that it costs the best breeders such as yourselves a ton of money to operate the way you do. Having a top-notch facility like yours is not inexpensive to own and operate. No one can (or would EVER) question the time, labor, love, blood, sweat and tears that you folks put into your operation. You are 2nd to none!! Your passion and dedication is what places SK amoung the top breeders (and individuals!) in the world. For that, I am extremly grateful and appreciative!!!

However, the topic of this thread was basically "who should pay the freight." And again, freight is a deductable expense (for the SELLER) and there is absolutely no way it could possibly approach 10% of the gross sale!! That would mean that on an average sell price of say $3,000 your freight cost would be $300?!?

I respectfully agree to disagree on that specific topic.

Tim

I don't know exactly what TSK situation is, but I think you have to take a few things into consideration when considering what percentage they pay in taxes. This is really my first year to sell a snake and I will go over everything with my tax lady, so this is just speculation.
I believe the sales tax rate is 7.75% in California. Then they are taxed on the income quarterly. In their tax bracket, this could be very large amounts of money. Possibly reaching 40% to 50%.
Wether anyone wants to pay shipping or not, is a business choice. I guess it comes down to the particular animal that you are seeking, otherwise you can just find someone to include it. Also, I am sure in alot of cases if you called someone and told them you will send them their asking price if they include shipping, they would accept that offer. But, if your asking for $100, $500, $1,000, $5,000 etc... off their asking price, I would not expect them to pay shipping.
Tom Baker

I agree. The decision to include shipping costs in the final price is a personal choice. You could sell an Albino for $2100 shipped or $2000 plus shipping expenses. Either choice is valid.

I prefer to include everything in the final price. After all, the most common explanation as to why BPs demand such high prices is the time, effort, and expense that goes into successful breeding. If I am already including the time, effort, and other expenses such as feeding, housing, electricity (etc) into the final price, then I might as well include other expenses such as PayPal fees and shipping costs.

Who knows? Who cares?

Chris
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mean people suck

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I could care less really.....LOL

Why DO people infer that "the 'big breeders' are rolling in the $$ and can afford to kick back lots of things"??

Maybe it has something to do with Big Breeders having online journals where they post pics of massive/expensive backyard and home contruction projects??

You and Dan have an absolutely beautiful backyard, don't get me wrong. But am I supposed to look at the pictures of your backyard and 'infer' that there's penny-pinching going on??

I remember a classified ad last year selling one of the original 'Black Balls' produced by Gulf Coast Reptiles. The seller was "forced to sell" because he had made commitments to his family and had gone "$40,000 over budget" on a backyard landscaping project. $40,000 OVER BUDGET?? Yeah, I cried out of sympathy when I saw that advertisement. LOL

Just my opinion. Yes, opinion are like rectums, everyone has one.
Excuses are also like rectums. Everyone has one and they all stink.

BB
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"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me

This is a valid question, complete with valid responses. The great thing about this business (or in my case; hobby) is that each of us has the opportunity to charge what we feel is right, and the buyers have the ability to pay what they want/can. I'd love to say that I would not charge shipping, but the reality; once I am in that position is that I might. As the snakes I produce grow in value, the cost of the morphs I want to work with will also be growing.

Chris has a good policy, of including the shipping & handling fees in with the price of the animal. Would you be more inclined to pay $10,000 plus s&h, or $10,100 for the same animal?
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Tammy

"Give me the luxuries of life and I will gladly do without the necessities." ~~ Frank Lloyd Wright

Most businesses operate this way.

For example...

Coke machines charge one dollar per drink. Is the market value of the drink itself one dollar? No. The price is calculated based on several factors -- initial cost of drink production, bottling, marketing, shipping, employee salary, taxes, and maintenance on the Coke machine.

Chris
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mean people suck

i live in missouri....coke machines are $1.25....better coke?

Deal

Higher taxes -- product, shipping, business, licensing, etc...

Or maybe it's better Coke...

Chris
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mean people suck

john, buy that $10,000.00 snake from me and you get the free shipping! if a customer purchases a snake over $1000.00 from me, shipping is free.trust me,they remember that. ED CLARK

are the prices that set in stone or firm???? what happen to $10,899.89 + s.h.? people look at the prices of any morph and think what will it be next year.i just got into normal balls last year and know i have some hets.most of my animals i got for less then the sticker price even if it was $100.i may never spend $10,000 on a animal ,but i will try to work up to it, by charging s.h!!LOL