Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all...I'm very new at this sort of thing, so please bear with me. I'll probably be here with lots of questions!

A brief introduction...my name is Judy, a happily married mom with three kids, ages 10, 7, and 1. My 10 year old daughter is enamored with reptiles in general and snakes in particular. She's quite sure she wants to become a herpatologist when she grows up. I've always had a liking for snakes myself, so am inclined to encourage this interest of hers. For a variety of reasons, we can't have "normal" pets like cats or dogs and I think a snake would be a great pet to have.

We'd been looking at and studying Ball Pythons for several months and are finally in a position to buy one. (We had to wait until after a cross-country move.) After going to the local pet store (Is that the best place to buy a snake at all? They seem good with them at this store we found.) we found that they didn't have any Ball Pythons currently, but introduced us to a beautiful Gopher Snake they had. I think it is a Sonoran, but am not 100% sure on that.

I'm not sure what to do at this point and advice on choosing a snake would be welcome. However...here is my big question for you guys. My husband is very skeptical about this whole thing. He's not phobic about them, but is wary about safety issues because of our youngest son. I've tried to tell him that either snake we get will be small because it's young, and that by the time it reaches maturity, our son will be much bigger as well and not something a snake would be able to hurt. So....how much danger does a heavy, 4-6 foot long snake pose to a toddler?

Thanks for wading through this and helping me!
Judy

In my opinion:

Either snake would make a good pet for your daughter. The problems with Ball Pythons is that a great percentage of them are wild-caught fresh imports and come with a variety of possible problems, including refusal to feed, parasites, etc. If you make sure to get a captive born one, that should eliminate those problems. Also only my opinion...the pet store is not the place to buy a snake. Sorry. I just don't like pet stores in general and I don't like the way obtain or keep their animals. There are some exceptions, to be sure. There are some pet stores that are good with their reptiles. But not many. You would be better off , (once again, in my opinion), buying from one of the breeders either on this forum or in your area. If you tell us what part of the country you are in, we may be able to direct you to someone.

I think the Gopher snake will make a much more entertaining pet for her. They are diurnal, they are much more active and will have more interaction with her in general. They are sometimes a little boistrous...hissing and bluffing, etc. But they are completely harmless.

As far as the safety of you youngest, neither of these animals is aggressive, and neither gets big enough to pose any sort of threat to a child. If one of them happened to actually bite a child it's no big deal.

I'll second the other poster; buy from a breeder. Give us a state and we can help
I'd advise the gopher snakes. They're not as docile as BP's, but they're a lot more fun, trust me Worked with both of them.
I will give a word of warning though; a bite from a six foot snake hurts like the devil. 'Course, that's from a tree boa, haven't been bit by a gopher. But, at that size, it hurts to get nailed.
Also, be carefull with the reptiles around toddlers anyway. There are sanitation issues, and two-three years ago a baby in Illinios was killed by a 7 foot python (which was left alone, uncaged, with the kid. I'm still amazed they got off of the charges). But, those are all one in a million odds (and I mean literally).

Paul

Thanks for the quick replies! (And I'm still interested in reading other opinions if anyone else has something to add.)

I agree with the general distaste of petstores that sell animals. These do seem well cared for though, and I spoke with their "snake people" at length while watching one of them go about his feeding routine. I wouldn't buy a wild-caught animal for any reason...only captive bred.

The gopher snake they have is startlingly bright and beautiful, but if you can help me find a good breeder in the area, I'm sure it will be a good idea to speak with them and compare animals and choices. I'm in Springfield, VA, which is near DC.

I'm open to any other advice anyone would like to offer a novice snake lover, including resources to study and people in my area to seek out.

Thanks!
Judy

Probably the closest is the one in Manassas, Virginia on August 23. The link is at the bottom of this post for that show.

The next one is the annual Mid Atlantic Reptile Show in mid September in Timonium, MD, which is a suburb of Baltimore. That one is a biggie, with some of the top breeder/dealers in the country. The link for that one is: http://www.reptileinfo.com/mars.html

Either show is a great one to go to. Try them both.
Manassas Show

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sue

Though I'd add my 2 cents to the bite comment. Yes, a bite from a 6ft snake is something you definitely notice, but I'd rather be bitten by a large non-venomous snake than a medium Cocker Spaniel. Also ragarding sanitation, I should add that I have been bitten by several types of snakes over the years and I've never developed an infection from any of them. My guess is the bacteria from their mouths don't care for 98.6F.
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Who is like Set...

I have thought that a snake (even a fairly large one like a mature gopher or ball python) would pose significantly less risk to a toddler than any breed of dog one would choose for a pet. Not that it isn't within the realm of imagination that the snake could somehow get lose while alone in the room with the toddler and decide that the toddler is prey and wrap around it until it is too late.........but....for one thing, I don't leave my toddler alone in rooms unless he's sleeping in his crib. And I have no intention of setting up an environment that a snake could easily escape from...much less allowing any pet snake to roam free! And the toddler would probably have to smell like mice or something.....

So WHY is it so hard to convince someone that a non-venomous, captive bred snake is much less threatening to the children than a dog?

*sigh*

I'll second the other poster; buy from a breeder. Give us a state and we can help
I'd advise the gopher snakes. They're not as docile as BP's, but they're a lot more fun, trust me Worked with both of them.
I will give a word of warning though; a bite from a six foot snake hurts like the devil. 'Course, that's from a tree boa, haven't been bit by a gopher. But, at that size, it hurts to get nailed.
Also, be carefull with the reptiles around toddlers anyway. There are sanitation issues, and two-three years ago a baby in Illinios was killed by a 7 foot python (which was left alone, uncaged, with the kid. I'm still amazed they got off of the charges). But, those are all one in a million odds (and I mean literally).

Paul

Naturally we will advise you to go with the gopher Personally, I like the North American species in general. There is a list of breeders on the Pituophis Page (see link). That is a good place to start. Any of these breeders can ship a snake to you, guaranteed. Good luck. By the way, there is a lot of excellent information on the linked site (great job KJ!)
Pituophis Page

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Tim

Thanks. I figured the answers here would be a bit biased toward the gopher. After "meeting" it in the store, I've been leaning a lot in that direction. But I still like the balls, too. Maybe someday we'll have a collection.........

I've been devouring some great links and info from this site ever since I discovered it yesterday. I'm having fun learning new stuff and will be showing my daughter as well.

Judy

Judy,

Glad to see you are not impluse buying, to many times that is what goes on when an individual goes into a shop etc. and is confronted by animals that are beautiful and appear to be healthy.

Currently out of my brood 3 grand kids and 1 adult child are keeping snakes. Here at our facility they have a choice at no expense to them of numerous colubrids, several varieties of boas and ball pythons.

The adult child keeps a little of everything, the three grand kids are keeping two - 6 snakes each and range in age from 8 - 12. The youngest is eight years old and keeping a ball python and a corn snake, the middle one is 10 and is keeping a bull snake,corn snake, san diego gopher and a South Florida King. The 12 year old is keeping a corn, Blotched king, Albino Nelsons Milk, Northern Pine and a Mexican Mountain King Snake. If you noticed the one common thread is they all have a corn. Which is what they all started with. Each of the other additions came as the child got somewhat bored with the mundane but very docile and predictable nature of the corns. As they learned and became interested in the charges they were keeping they have expanded the collections. In the mean time two others have decided they did not want the responsibility of the snakes they had and brought them home. Maybe someday they will return after biys are not as big an attraction.

Bottom Line here is what I suggest:

1. Try a corn for a first snake and get a pit later, they are my favorite of all the animals and eventually she will end up with pits. as she becomes more decerning.

2. Set up strict rules for snaitation, such as washing hands after any interaction with the caging,animal or feed.

3. Buy from a breeder or join a localherp club to find out which pet shops in the area can be trusted.

4. Buy onlycaptive born animals of whatever type you decide on.

5. Encourageyour daughter to become a member of this forum and ask questions after she has researched as much as she can on her own. The learning process is great.

And last but not least help her enjoy the hobby, herpteculture is a wide and far reaching hobby/business that for some is very appealing.

If Cindy or I can be of Help let us know, we are always willing to answer questions.

Good Luck,

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Cherryville Farms

I should second Mr. Cherry (like he needs, it *L*)
, pits and some few Oz. pythons, are IHMO the BEST snake captives, in so long as they are captive bred. Any WC snake is a risky buy, espically if it's your first. Parasites, disease, temperment, legality even...all can be questionable.

BTW, you should check out the corns and kingsnake. I know everyone says look at cal kings, but I've noticed their tempers aren't quite as nice as Mexican black kings, and Mex blacks are cooler, bigger snakes anyway--I think they make as good a first snake as corns They're my favorite kingsnake so far (haven't tried brooksi yet, or splendida, which are the other two I like the look of). She might like one--great snakes.

Also a good option are Children's pythons, or Spotted pythons. Almost all are CB (might be some smuggled ones out there). They also stay small and are pretty cool. You might consider boas; they get large, but not obscenely so, usually (although I saw a memorable 12 footer once--HUGE snake--most hit 5-8 feet and grow slowly, taking 3-4 years to get there)
You sound like you've researched and thought it out, and are capable, so...

Check out the following breeders:
John Cherry at Cherryville farms www.kingsnake.com/cherry
BHB www.kingsnake.com/bhb
Envy reptiles www.kingsnake.com/nvreptiles or www.kingsnake.com/nvreptile
I can't recall URL but one of those is right!

I've recieved thus far great service from Envy and BHB, and John Cherry has got a great rep, although I've never dealt with him myself (he's the same one as post here, just to minimize any confusion).

There's a few others to check out on the Pit page that someone linked too.
I also reccomend "Common Kingsnakes" and the "Corn Snake Manual" both published by AVS. I'm unaware of good pit literature, but really, there's a lot of crossover. Just be aware that pits get larger--go to yahoo groups and check out the bull-pine-gopher list. There is a picture of a large Sonoran gopher there, if you search through the old post. It'll give you an idea what big pit looks like for size.

Paul

Most of what I would reply to this note, I've said in the reply to John Cherry's post. But I found that picture you mentioned at yahoo groups. Wow...that's a beautiful snake! And big. She said the picture didn't show its size well, but it sure looked big to me.

Fortunately for all involved, I believe the only way to deal with my hubby's gunshyness about larger snakes is with total honesty about our options. Otherwise, I'd be trying to hide pictures like that! *LOL*

Thanks!
Judy

It's so cool to get a reply from someone who's website I've been pouring over! And like Paul said below...Adopt me too! *LOL*

We've discussed the sanitation issues and continue to go over the rules...ad nauseum, I'm sure the kids think.

Since finding this site, I've found countless resources that I didn't know were out there. So far I've been unsuccessful in finding a local breeder (Virginia...DC area) but I'll keep looking. I'd rather buy one locally than have one shipped. Shipping live animals across the country seems risky and it is expensive.

I'm also on the look-out for local herp clubs. What I'd REALLY like to find is a reputable breeder or handler close by (even if they don't have the snake I'm looking to buy) who would be willing to work a little with my daughter in exchange for her helping out with chores or whatever.

I'm firmly committed to only buying captive bred animals.

We've only just moved here and haven't set up our main computers yet (I'm stuck on a laptop) but when we do, I'll help my daughter join here. In the meantime, I'm going to get her started learning some of the basic terminology and rules of snake handling.

I've become smitten with pits in general and gophers in particular, but am still partial to balls too. But I'm not close minded to corns. Since my hubby is a bit gunshy about anything longer than 12", we may have to focus on something a bit smaller to start. Someday, I would love to own several kinds and would even like to try some husbandry...eventually. But first we have to get over this hurdle of finding the first snake...

Ya'll are great! Thanks!
Judy

You could buy the child a corn or something and yourself a bullsnake or similar pit. They are addictive so it won't stop with one anyway And your husband will get over it if he's not actually phobic; my parents were very concerned at first but grew to relize that my snakes never hurt me badly. He'll figure that they're safe and sound, and might even like them

I don't know any breeders in your area; there are some in New York and New Jeresy though, but I know nothing about them. BHB is in Michigan, Envy is in Utah, VMS is in Colorado, and Cherry is Texas (Woohoo, him and the Barkers [and Sandy!] both, I am going to love living down there!). Honestly, the shipping is safe. I've only recived maybe 4-5 shipments of animals via mail but they've all been fine. It is costly but not huge.
If you want a herp club locally check the club listings on this site; you might get one.

Luck
Paul
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Cornsnakes and kingsnakes and gophers oh my!

Paul,
Regarding your discussion on shipping snakes...I hope that "via the mail" was just a figure of speech to include all shippers (FedEx, UPS, Airborne)..shipping ANY snake or knowingly receiving a snake via the US Postal Service is against Federal Law. That include non-venomous snakes. They are serious about it and they will prosecute if they catch you. Shipping some other herps like lizards is OK via mail, but not snakes. My advice would be don't chance it, it's not worth the little bit of money saved.

s
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Cornsnakes and kingsnakes and gophers oh my!

I agree with John, if the snake is for a child and it's their first one, I'd get a cornsnake. They don't get large (4 or 5 ft.) almost never bit and come in every color in the rainbow. If you can wait a couple more months the Virginia all captive bred show and sale will be in Richmond VA. Most of the breeders in Virginia will be there as well as a lot from other parts of the eastern U.S.

Tim
Southampton Herps

Here a link to the show
Virginia Expo

Thanks! I don't think we'll wait that long to buy a snake, but I'm already planning a road trip to that show. Should be tons of fun and very educational for us!

Hiya! My situation is so similar to yours, it's funny, but I'm 1 year down the road. We started with a ball, bought at Regal Reptiles here in RI. CBB, and we got to handle as many as we wanted until we found the one we liked best. Jake is 1 year old now, and the sweetest BP you'll ever find. I researched for about 6 months before purchasing our first snake. We waited 1 year until we purchased a Bearded Dragon. Now, we are heading to the NY expo to see about a corn snake for the 8 year old. It's addictive, so be careful!!! IMO balls are a good first snake because 1) they rarely bite or snap. 2) they are S-L-O-W and don't get away from kids as fast as some other types of snakes. (picture your husband hearing of the snake loose in the house) 3) they LOOK smaller. Don't laugh, but they tend to stay curled around your hand, arm etc, and don't seem as big as they actually are when stretched out. Good for people trying to adjust to a new cold-blooded family member.
Good luck, and post pics when you choose!!
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1.0 Ball Python
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.2 fish
2.1 cats
3.1 kids
1.0 husband