Reptile & Amphibian Forums

nobody in the Va. Herp Society seemed to care enough to document that we found these guys, so thought i would post them on here. all from Bedford County, Virginia.

Very cool. Look almost coastal-ish.
:Mark

yeah! someone else mentioned that to me last year. the red rings don't go all the way around the body.

The VHS disregard for the observations of amature herpers is almost criminal in my opinion. You did at least send shed samples to Dr. Grogan correct? If so he'll be glad to document your findings.

hey, Tony! i agree with you 100%. you, Bill and George are the only people who have shown any genuine interest in these snakes and i appreciate that. Mike, Beverly and i were told LAST YEAR by the treasurer of the VHS that the findings would be documented in the next issues of Catesbeiana, but they never were. oh! they did document a Five-Lined Skink that was caught in a spider's web in someone's garage!! go figure! i've since dropped my membership in the Society because of the cavalier attitude, as have Mike and Beverly. it's really a shame. anyhow, thanks for looking and i hope to see you again soon.

what type of situation wre they found???.....i thought that the "scarlet king" range stopped in nc....would these be coastals or as i read recently a southern moph of the eastern milk...thoughts????

we always find them on the road at night.

the scarlet king does range into virginia....those pictured are not coastals,but are vaguely similar looking to the more southerly populations of coastals-say,from tyrell county....but not really so to the ones from md. or nj.

>>nobody in the Va. Herp Society seemed to care enough to document that we found these guys, so thought i would post them on here. all from Bedford County, Virginia.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, TX

yeah, but we're 3-4 hours away from the Coastal Plain.

and btw,when i look at the pic i don't see coastal plain milk there at all,but like i said above,i could understand how some people may see some similarities on a basic level...but i have kept both species-the pics look just like my scarlets;nothing like my coastals(but i never kept any from nc,which ar sort of more scarlet king-like)

then maybe i can see a real similarity

They aren't coastals.

congrats!what a find, sad about vhs,,but oilwellpolitics, anyway those are very cool.if you start a line keep me in mind for babies!those are SMOKIN

thanks, Thomas! yeah, politics is right! anyway, you've got some pretty awesome Kings yourself. i will keep you in mind, buddy. thanks for looking!

Those definitely look like coastal plains milk snakes over scarlet kingsnakes. Very awesome.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
Diadophisdude@yahoo.com
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake

thanks, Mike! we have a guy in Maryland and a guy in North Carolina that we send shed skins to. they're doing DNA testing to determine if they might be intergrades or not.

I'd be interested in hearing the results from the tests.

I would also be interested in a pair of these.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
Diadophisdude@yahoo.com
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake

where are you located, Mike? i will keep you in mind.

what is so coastal plains milk-ish about those??someone please tell me......pretty much everything about them says scarlet kings,not coastal plains milks,too me

The patterns. Just the looks of them makes them look like coastal plains milks.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
Diadophisdude@yahoo.com
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake

We have collected two different live specimens of red milk snake and several more dead ones on the road and the USFWS office on the refuge absolutely denies that is what they are based solely on the current range maps. Sad it is....very. No one knows local herps better than local ametuers in my opinion. But they hold masters degrees in wildlife law enforcement and various other credentials that warrant them expertise...give me a break.

lol! thank you! i couldn't have said it better myself! now, check this out! almost 2 years ago when we caught the first one of these snakes, we took it to the Va. Herp Society's Fall meeting. there was a guy present who helped author the booklet called 'A Guide to the Snakes of Virginia' which the Dept. of Game & Inland Fisheries offers for free. he saw the snake and very sarcastically said 'That's just somebody's pet that got loose!'. well, you know what? somebody must've had a lot of pets get loose because we've seen 8 more since then! thanks for looking, Matt!

I firmly believe that we currently know absolutely nothing about the historic ranges of native herps. I mean come on.....between the 1700-early 1900's we completely destroyed all native southern habitat. I know some of us would like to think we are seeing the remnants of a few old growth forest today, but in actuality we are seeing what was able to reforest from our greed of what we thought were unlimited resources. In other words, we are seeing forest that are no older than 100 years old today, because extensive efforts to reforest forest land didn'tbegin until the late 1950's. With all of this habitat detruction and altering of our natural waterways and rivers I think there are scattered populations of many nakes in areas that they have previously inhabited in great numbers. Just something to think about. And like I said.....who knows native herps better than locals...NO ONE! Not even PhD's of herpetology.

you speak a lot of truth. that is something to think about. i'm starting to hear more and more people talk about seeing real Water Mocassins in these parts and i'm beginning to wonder. all the books i read as a kid in the 70's said they weren't found around here. but, i guess over a period of, say, 25 years or more with factors like you mentioned such as habitat destruction, flooding, etc. who's to say they're not popping up in areas where previously they weren't known to exist?

They do look CPish, but on the SK side of CP.
Jim

i can see similarities in both. i picked a book up not long ago on Kingsnakes/Milksnakes and it said Scarlet Kings have 12 to 22 red bands and Coastal Plains/Eastern Milk/Red Milk have 24 to 31. all these guys have 21 to 22 red bands.

hey what book was this?

i'll have to double check on the title. it was in a local pet store.