Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Frequently the question is asked, "What should I get for my first Hot"...or I think I'm ready..what do you think?"

This was disscussed at length and some valid points were raised and answered.

However, it also exposed some resentment and mis-conceptions that some of our younger and less experienced herpers seem to have against those of us who have many years experience.

The main one being that we are somehow an "Elitest" group that is out to keep new herpers from getting into Hots.

This is tottaly wrong. Damn few of us have a degree so that part is pure BS. What we do have is hands on experience. We have been there and survived because we had the sense to listen, learn and be careful.

To you young folk who are just starting or considering.... One day you will be where we are (if the laws don't shut us down). It looks very different from the eyes of experience. One day you too will be asked for advice and then scorned when you gave the unwelcomed answer.

We live in a society that is more and more connected by Email and other means. Because of this, we become part of many people's lives that we may never meet in person. It limits how much one can judge from a question printed on a computer screen.

There is a responsibility that comes with giving advice. We are dealing with creatures that kill. Bad advice has consequences for us all. If a child takes our advice and gets injured or killed, it reflects on ALL of us.

The majority of people do not understand why we are so foolish (in their view) to keep animals that they feel are malevelant and deadly. Each time someone acts irresponsibly with snakes the lid on our privilige is closed a bit further on us all.

The problem with advice is that it can backfire...and when it does (especially in the case of a child)reprecussions can result. I am waiting for the first parent to sue because her child was injured due to advice recieved on a talk forum. Trust me...it's coming.

There is also a moral responsibility. Do I have the right to tell a young person it's ok to enter a possibly life threatening hobby?

No...let me ammend that...a hobby that will DEFINITLY put them in danger.

So you see, it is not so easy as being an elitist handing out advice. The bottom line is this is not a hobby for anyone and not a safe one for ANYONE.

Something to consider before you post...

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Just another post to consider...

See this post also:

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"Fighting on the forums is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded."

DH June 2005

The problem is that certain people are asking questions and not getting the answers they like. When, in all actuality, if they were ready or responsible enough, they wouldn't be asking the questions in the first place. They don't have the common sense to realize that the advice given may save their lives. And let's face it, there is alot of common sense involved in hot keeping.

n/p
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Venomous snakes---best hobby on earth!
Bill Huseth

wonder what people did before the INTERNET on asking " Am I ready for " what specie, how hot venom wise is this snake, what should I start out with, etc. With huge numbers of imports and the collecting of hots, I don't see a increase of bite statistics or even casualties from then and now. The only info we had was some books with people like Klauber, Ditmires, Old IronSides of Africa ( that collected thousands of venomous in his days to import ) Leaky ( also imported thousands of hots from Africa ), Hass, Caufield, etc. What did we do ? > we DID IT because we had Bolas and Cajoles ! LOL ! I know because i imported and still with many price list from those days. And remember that the keeping of hots was primarily UNREGULATED about a decade or more before. So what am I saying........
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

You know, some people seem to not appreciate the fact that the advantage of having a forum like this is to avoid the mistakes earlier generations of keepers made.

As to percentages...someone with a better handle on the numbers will have to comment there. However it should be pointed out that some of the "pioneers" of this interest paid for it with their lives. We know more now.

As to advice, it only has value if those who ask for it are willing to listen, something young people are notorious for not doing. That is because children do not understand the full impact of descisions of life and death. of course they will tell you they do because children Hate to be wrong.

Every possible arguement except one has been stated here and it is perhaps the most compelling one.

10-14 year old children have far less body mass to absorb the venom from a bite. This dramatically increases the risk of disfigurement, amputation and death.

Do the math...For example, I weigh 250 lbs. A boy who weighs 90-110 lbs recieves the same bite dose. who is in greater danger?

Some of you feel that we "experts" have no right to discourage kids from starting with venomous. Ample good reasons have been given.

If you are not willing to listen then it is fully YOUR OWN RISK.

I at least can deal with the fact that I told the truth.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

figure how many of these people asking them questions are of juvenile age on here and other sites. So many of these threads are of the " smoking gun theory " in my opinion. I have seen many times the rather BS scenario and or statement of " it's not if but when you will get tagged ". Right ! While I do not advocate a young person on the keeping of hots, I did and about a dozen or more people That I know/knew did. At this time I know of several dozen hot keepers that have NEVER been nabbed. Can they get tagged ? Certainly. But if we had a forum for sky divers, race car drivers, bungee jumpers, etc. would we say the same as to " better be in the enlighten era as you could be killed or maimed by doing so ". Where is the likes of Randal B and Earl T and others that we have discussed this before. Come help me on this guys. Of course this is my opinions as many others on this type thread. Not to say that many of the seasoned keepers or researchers are opinionated but I wonder when some of them started out and how or why.
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

How many kids learn to shoot guns or ride motor bikes or what ever....responsibly? That is not the issue.

The point is that what we are dealing with is not a machine it is an UNPREDICTABLE animal. That is what makes it different.

I started in Hots (aside from my childhood captures) when I was in my early twentys. How? I was offered a FREE Popes Viper Baby.

I also belonged to a very responsible Herp society that had members with sense enough to teach proper methods of maintaing such.

I do not discourage responsible sounding (as we can only go off what they write)adults from learning to kep venemous.

But for the last time...I do not think a responsible keeper should EVER advocate a child from doing this-

-ESPECIALLY when all you have to go on is what they claim when they write and ask...or for that matter, might not even be a kid but instead might even be a Game Officer.

Unless you know this person do you really know who you are talking to?

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."